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ATI cuts 6950 allocation

It would be funny if the card came out and it was something arbitary like 1704 SP.

lol, yes, it would. Its interesting though, certainly more interesting than a full working 5870 being re-released :p

It would be nice if AMD kicked Nvidia's ass for a change, not least because we'd get a real price war.

480 vs 5870 and all the lower cards, there was a price war but it was 90% Nvidia vs itself, AMD never got involved, even after rock bottom pricing of the 460 768mb cards AMD never dropped 5770 pricing (if they were still selling great to Dell and co, maybe on existing deals or just because Dell or other companies are a bit anti Nvidia, thats impressive). This gen if AMD actually beat Nvidia, Nvidia will again tank pricing but they'd have to go further, and that would this time actually mean AMD price cuts aswell.

From recollection the 480/470/460 in all guises all had heavy price cuts(470gtx the biggest and probably most hurtful) yet the 5870/5850/5770 never took price cuts and still sold loads and loads. If Nvidia had to cut another 10-20% off prices, firstly they'd be even better value cards, and second AMD would also have had to cut 10-20%, which would be pretty damn awesome for everyone.
 
GTX470 pricing has been great - I got one of mine for £164 inc delivery, I think that even beats the 8800GT for value for money while not being hideously slower than the top end.

I'd like to see the 6970 beat the snot out of the GTX580 too - for some reason I have a hate for that card probably due to how little gain it really is over a 480 - and it would be great to see what nVidia can produce under pressure.
 
GTX470 pricing has been great - I got one of mine for £164 inc delivery, I think that even beats the 8800GT for value for money while not being hideously slower than the top end.

I'd like to see the 6970 beat the snot out of the GTX580 too - for some reason I have a hate for that card probably due to how little gain it really is over a 480 - and it would be great to see what nVidia can produce under pressure.

470gtx pricing NOW is great, it launched at, actually I can't remember, it wasn't far off 570gtx pricing though, maybe even more. Hmm, seems like RRP was $349 but it was £300-330 as it launched in the UK, as in pricing for pre-orders on release. It was a while before it suddenly became, a circa £220 product, and at that point it was price/performance not entirely bad vs a 5850, but not good, and had downsides, heat/power/noise vs the 5850. When it hit sub £200 it was a great deal, but again AMD were established, selling well, and still didn't drop in price.

The worst thing is Nvidia needed 470gtx pricing to be £300+ to make a real profit and the same will be true of the GF110, its expensive, a short run and a LOT of time and money spent doing what amounts to a VERY small tweak. I mean most R&D cost is really just people, 100's to 1000's of engineers on good wages. For AMD those guys were brining about, a 30% efficiency improvement for Barts, a further 25% efficiency in shaders for Cayman, while Nvidia engineers were eating up similar levels of cash, to get last gen yielding fully.

That money spent for AMD means more efficient and better next gen parts, for Nvidia, its all but down the drain as process rubbish they'll have to relearn for the next process anyway.


You're right, Nvidia need a good kicking(and a new CEO) and I've said for a long time, they need a efficient core, not a simple but massive core.

THe problem is you get the impression the current CEO's solution to AMD putting out yet another more efficient architecture will be "lets make it bigger again for next year" at which point I think if you listen closely you can actually near Nvidia engineers on the other side of the globe groaning en masse :p

The interesting thing is, if Nvidia go for an "efficient" architecture, it will be harder for them to maintain DP throughput advantage vs AMD's architecture, at which point AMD (with the people and improvements they are making) could then get on a much more level playing field in Nvidia's only really profitable sector, professional graphics. I think thats really why so far Nvidia haven't left the fairly simple shader architecture, its VERY easy to get DP performance out of, but ultimately inefficient.
 
It seems they have consulted ARM on tegra and kepler tho so things could turn around on both performance and efficency fronts. Bit ironic that a primarily "design" company has to consult another design company to get good results tho.

Now if ARM started making gaming GPUs you might see the fanboy in me lol.
 
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We will see, the graphic card market is very complex one.
2900xt which is a great great grandad of 6970, and has a same aritechture. When it came out, it was hot, inefficient, relatively slow and expensive as well as delayed.
It took 4-5 generations to get the architecture perfected.

Nvidia is at that stage now with it's fermi. Femi as architecture has much more life than current Ati version. Expect, Kepler to move things on massively forward.

"To understand the future u must know the past"
 
Hi there

All I can say is they are bloody fast. :D

For the money I am amazed. :)

I can see this launch being hugely sucessul for ATI, easily on par with 58xx series but better because I literally have enough stock to prevent running out which will also mean our pricing will be excellent and I should be able to keep the price low low, no price hikes. :)
 
We will see, the graphic card market is very complex one.
2900xt which is a great great grandad of 6970, and has a same aritechture. When it came out, it was hot, inefficient, relatively slow and expensive as well as delayed.
It took 4-5 generations to get the architecture perfected.

Nvidia is at that stage now with it's fermi. Femi as architecture has much more life than current Ati version. Expect, Kepler to move things on massively forward.

"To understand the future u must know the past"

Probably get flamed for it although its true... with the R600 ATI tried to implement a ton of features that the GPU had no hope of actually using with decent performance - stuff thats only just becoming feasible now, even tho it meant nerfing the DX spec nVidia concentrated on features that were useful for that generation of GPUs. While I'm all for progress the time just wasn't right for things like tessellation, advanced deferred rendering, etc. if they'd concentrated on the stuff that actually mattered it would probably have been a reasonaly good performing, thermal/power efficent GPU even tho it wasn't on a great process.
 
Just tell us if it beats the green or not. :mad:

Too early to tell, need to do more testing, but it does win very easily on one factor, value for money for the performance offered. :)

I really can't give anything away regards to performance, but for the money the RED Side wins. :)
 
We will see, the graphic card market is very complex one.
2900xt which is a great great grandad of 6970, and has a same aritechture. When it came out, it was hot, inefficient, relatively slow and expensive as well as delayed.
It took 4-5 generations to get the architecture perfected.

Nvidia is at that stage now with it's fermi. Femi as architecture has much more life than current Ati version. Expect, Kepler to move things on massively forward.

"To understand the future u must know the past"

Fermi is NOT massively new, to say so is utterly silly, yes the arrangement isn't the same as the 8800, but the base shaders mostly are. Thats the point of a mostly fairly simple 1 for 1 shader architecture.

Gf100 is way closer to 8800 than the 6970 is to 2900xt. The 6970 has a different front end, different memory bus, different internal communication(radically different) different shaders, and seemingly different tesselation unit.

A cayman doesn't come close to performing like a x number of shaders 2900xt card, at all, in any way. 8800 128 shaders, 280gtx, 240shaders(I keep hearing it was supposed to be 256shaders but was basically too big, I assume it used to be more 16 shader clusters rather) and 256 would have been the natural progression. The 480gtx is 512shaders, again a natural progression.

The whole time memory bus has been fairly standard, internal communication has been fairly standard, rops/tmu's have been fairly standard, ratio's have been kinda standard and performance scaling has been exactly where you expect. Double shaders(and several other things) get circa 80% more performance. This is EXACTLY what you expect for a very similar architecture doubling in size every generation.

The 2900xt was big because it was designed for 65nm, and was pushed up to 80nm as 65nm was VERY late, simple as that, it was a huge core, because it should have been on a MUCH smaller node, thats all, it would likely have had significantly more shaders aswell to make more use of that ringbus architecture.

The 5870 bears very little relation to the 2900xt, the 6970 bears no relation to it now.

Fermi is NOT the new and inefficient design that will get better with new process's. Architecture + process don't "suit" one another, its a simple case of too big = problems making it, this "too big" size has been pretty much the same for generations but also shrinking generation by generation.

Keep in mind that 2900xt was HUGE, on the wrong process and ate power, and yet yields still beat Gf100 quite easily, 2900xt was also almost top to bottom a completely new architecture to previously, on top of having to be pushed back a process, on top of having many dx10.1 features(and the original dx10 spec features) included that Nvidia/MS teamed together to have removed. Fermi has literally none of that going for it in terms of excuses, 32nm was never going to be out last year, Fermi is the exact architecture you expected from a double shader count 280gtx with generational improvements, it doesn't show any significant architectural efficiency over 280gtx(except in DP).

Fermi is as "new" an architecture as 280gtx was to the 8800, some, but expected with no massive jump in efficiency.

The 5870 was exactly the same, its "new" its got dx11, its got stuff the 4870 didn't have, but it performed EXACTLY where you thought a double sized 4870 was, there was little to no efficiency increase, it had similar shaders and front end. 4870/5870 are two cards you would call the same architecture, the 2900xt, the 3870, the 4870/5870, the 6870 add the 6970 are all "different" architectures with pretty fundamental changes.
 
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