Australia vs India

JAzz · 26 Dec 2007 at 10:43

So who else apart from me is watching it?

Real good first day of cricket. India started of very brightly and had the openers all over the place with the ball zipping around but they didn't the wicket their bowling deserved and soon after ran out of steam. India have only gone with two fast bowlers so after first change they had nobody else to use these conditions and the Aussies made them pay. At 123/0 it was looking like a 500+ score was on the cards but India fought back strongly. First Kumble getting the breakthrough with some clever bowling and Zaheer bowling a beautie to knock Ponting over. Hayden kept things going for a little while longer but he eventually fell as well

Close of day 337/9 so if India can keep the Aussies under 350 they have done well and I think at the start of play would have been well chuffed with that. This is the match where the Aussies usually lay down their marker for the rest of the series so India will need to bat well and put pressure on the Aussies and let them know this series won't be a walk in the park.

JAzz · 6 Jan 2008 at 13:52

Well I think I'm the only one watching it

India have lost the 2nd match and it was an absolute thriller. Felt India got some real rough decisions along the way and there was a bit of bad blood in this series which has spilled over from the ODI series in India. Harbajhan has been accused of racially abusing Symonds and in India Symonds got some bad treatment from the crowd. That was a disgrace imo and the Indian are quick to pull the race card when it happens to them but what about now? Harbajhan should have the book thrown at him if he is guilty imo.

In the first innings Symonds got a clear edge when he was on 30 and the score was around 190/6 but was given not out and he went on to score 162* and Australia 463. In India's 2nd inning Dravid was given out to a rough decision and there are questions whether the ball hit the ground before getting to slips on the Ganguly dismissal, I don't know exactly what happened but from what I'm reading the Aussies put pressure on the umpire and got the decision. The Aussies got some bad ones as well like when Ponting was given out for lbw but a few overs before he hadn't been given out despite edging it to the keeper.

On a bright note for India Laxman got a century, Ganguly looked very good yet again and even though didn't make a big one yet again was batting very fluently, Dravid seems to be finding himself again and finally Tendulkar got a century! Great to see Tendulkar finally break this run of nineties he was in! Good to see the standing ovation the Aussie crowd gave him then and when he was dismissed when playing on (yet again!) because I think they realise he won't be playing at this ground again. Hussey and Hayden scored vital centuries and those took the game away from India imo. Also though India's lack of quality in the bowling department was exposed again and they couldn't bowl Australia out quickly enough in their 2nd innings and when they had the Aussies on the rack in the first innings they couldn't finish the job off. Their lack of fight on the final day with the bat was found a bit wanting from some. Everyone in India was pulling their hair out on Yuvraj not being in the team well he has played these last two matches done **** all and upset the balance of the team because Dravid is having to open. Also for once I think India had the Aussies worried a bit, usually they would have been a lot more aggressive with their declaration but the Aussies feared a loss so wanted to make sure the game was out of India's hand. Still India should have held on but it wasn't meant to be.

One More Solo · 6 Jan 2008 at 14:03

Wish I'd seen the game today, the Aussies are a different class unfortunately, no other team could have pulled that off.

Big Kev · 6 Jan 2008 at 14:13

I watched the last hour, fingers crossed that the Indians would hold out, but Michael Clarke came on and that was that, unfortunately.

Having said that, an awesome achievement by the Aussies.

JohnnyG · 6 Jan 2008 at 15:43

I can't believe they got a win out of this, I watched the highlights from the first 3 days or so and had it nailed on for a draw especially after 1st innings scores. As mentioned, I think only Australia could pull off a win like that and what's more they do it consistently.
I was praying they wouldn't equal their winning record too but you have to hand it to them really, amazing side.
Hope it pours down for the next Test

JAzz · 6 Jan 2008 at 17:28

Well the Indian media is absolutely furious and are throwing some serious accusations around at the moment. The BCCI also are writing a letter to the ICC about the quality of umpiring and want Steve Bucknor to not be an umpire in the next match. The reaction is a bit over the top but they showed one interesting clip of Ponting appeal for a catch off a spinner, he clearly catches it, then his hand and the ball clearly touch the ground but he lifts it up to appeal straight away. Then he wants to talk about playing the game in the right spirit? Also the umpire asked Ponting about whether Clarke had caught it and didn't refer to the third umpire and he said Clarke had caught it so was given out. The decision to give Dravid out was even worse as the bat was nowhere near the ball and clearly hit his pads.

Harbhajan has also been banned for three matches after making racist comments to Symonds, surely I'm not the only who sees the irony of an Indian guy being racist to a black man! Not gonna defend Harbhajan but the Aussies are quick to hurl abuse about themselves but quick to portray themselves as victims when someone has a pop at them! Remember in South Africa and England they moaned about the abuse they got yet they have really laid into those teams in the past.

JohnnyG said:
Hope it pours down for the next Test

Get that rain dance going now Johnny!

JohnnyG · 6 Jan 2008 at 17:49

I'm quite glad in an odd way that Harbhajan has been punished for insulting Symonds as racial abuse should never be influenced by skin colour alone

As much as I hate Ponting as a person I've always thought he was honest with his arrogance, in India's 1st innings he declined a catch he took at slip immediately saying it didn't carry, the replays I saw were inconclusive and I can think of plenty of other players who would've appealed for it and it's not the first time I've seen him do that so when he does appeal I tend to think he genuinely thinks he's made a clean catch.

JAzz · 6 Jan 2008 at 20:52

JohnnyG said:
I'm quite glad in an odd way that Harbhajan has been punished for insulting Symonds as racial abuse should never be influenced by skin colour alone
As much as I hate Ponting as a person I've always thought he was honest with his arrogance, in India's 1st innings he declined a catch he took at slip immediately saying it didn't carry, the replays I saw were inconclusive and I can think of plenty of other players who would've appealed for it and it's not the first time I've seen him do that so when he does appeal I tend to think he genuinely thinks he's made a clean catch.

A lot of cricket experts have had plenty to say about the Harbhajan thing and many are saying the same. The Aussies are quick to dish it out but now they are having to listen to some of it suddenly they are offended. I remember some of their bowlers moaning about the English crowds in the last Ashes here in England but I remember an interview with Phil Tufnell and he said he had to listen to a fair bit as well in his time so had no sympathy. Same goes for the South African players but when Smith was right in their faces the Aussies were making it out like he was going over the top.

In the past Indians have had to listen to plenty in the past and the Aussies have a famous saying "What goes on in the middle, stays in the middle" but in this situation Ricky Ponting has gone and got Harbhajan stitched up whereas in the past a lot of players have had to listen to the Aussie sledging and nothing has happened. If they moaned the Aussies shot them down as being weak or not being able to take a bit of abuse. Now it has happened to them suddenly they are victims and need to get a player banned.

I'll try to find you a clip Johnny but I always thought the same of Ponting but there is one part, it was off a spinner and I think it was off the guys pads and Ponting himself dives to catch it. The ball is in his hand but clearly touched the floor yet he pops up straight up to appeal. Pressure will make you do funny things and I think Ponting knew the record might be slipping away so did what he had to do. In the case of Ganguly it was a farce the umpire didn't even consult the third umpire to check whether it carried especially considering the situation we had with the game and just went on what Ponting said.

bigredshark · 6 Jan 2008 at 21:23

JohnnyG said:
I'm quite glad in an odd way that Harbhajan has been punished for insulting Symonds as racial abuse should never be influenced by skin colour alone

Me too actually, say what you like about the aussies but their abuse was generally limited to telling opposition players they weren't any good, it occasionally got personal but it never got racist. In my opinion india have an issue with their on field conduct, it's fine being fired up but too many players cross the line too often...

Credit to the aussies as well, (decisions aside, because over a players career I reckon they'll even out) no other team would even have thought seriously about winning that match let alone gone on to do so. They're in a class of their own in some ways but strangely weak in others (their bowling is weak on paper - mitchell johnston doesn't look a front line test bowler being the most serious issue)

JAzz · 7 Jan 2008 at 11:32

India have supposedly been told to put the tour on hold until the appeal for Harbhajan has been heard. This gonna get nasty and it is not good for cricket

The India media has been going mental in the last few days over this and that has put more pressure on the board to react. I don't like to see this happen but India were robbed in this match.

bigredshark said:
Me too actually, say what you like about the aussies but their abuse was generally limited to telling opposition players they weren't any good, it occasionally got personal but it never got racist. In my opinion india have an issue with their on field conduct, it's fine being fired up but too many players cross the line too often...

How many Indian players have got in trouble in the past for crossing the line?

dozer · 7 Jan 2008 at 12:36

theres bad umpiring decisions all the time in cricket, it a part of the game and you get on with it.

throwing all your toys out of the pram when things dont go your way is another thing entirely.

rubberduck · 7 Jan 2008 at 13:01

I'm not sure if I've heard the full story but from what I understand the comments made were certainly racist..... The whole of India certainly dissaproved of what happened between Shilpa Shetty and Jade Goody so maybe the media need to think this one through a little.

I think it really reflected badly on Pakistan in the way they handled the ball-tampering incident of 2006... It would be a shame if the same thing happended with India

bigredshark · 7 Jan 2008 at 13:24

Jazz said:
India have supposedly been told to put the tour on hold until the appeal for Harbhajan has been heard. This gonna get nasty and it is not good for cricket The India media has been going mental in the last few days over this and that has put more pressure on the board to react. I don't like to see this happen but India were robbed in this match.

How many Indian players have got in trouble in the past for crossing the line?

Well I think it goes either way, you could say india weren't helped by the umpires and certainly they weren't. But they lost 5 wickets (genuine undisputable dismissals I'd add) to part time bowlers in the second innings, Dravid and Ganguly were done in fair enough but to loose those 5 wickets so easily to clark and symonds on a decent batting pitch was careless.

I wasn't specifically talking about racism, more the number of players who take aggression too far - mainly bowlers it has to be said. Sreesanth is the obvious example, but RP Singh and Zaheer Khan are guilty of it as well (Khan not so much to be fair). I seem to recall, though don't quote me, that Harbhajan has been confrontational in the past (refusing to walk after being clean bowled springs to mind)

bigredshark · 7 Jan 2008 at 13:28

dozer said:
theres bad umpiring decisions all the time in cricket, it a part of the game and you get on with it.

throwing all your toys out of the pram when things dont go your way is another thing entirely.

Exactly, at any level of cricket you'll get a bad decisions every so often, you can't get hung up about them, you'll get bad decisions in your favour too so it all evens out in the end.

After all, it is only a game...

cheets64 · 7 Jan 2008 at 14:19

The 2 worst teams for sportsmanship.

Chimpdaddy · 7 Jan 2008 at 14:21

bigredshark said:
Exactly, at any level of cricket you'll get a bad decisions every so often, you can't get hung up about them, you'll get bad decisions in your favour too so it all evens out in the end.

After all, it is only a game...

I would agree with most of this post. In this particular test though, it seems India really got the raw end of the deal.
Andrew Symonds was definitely out on 30, he later made 160. A few LBW's that could have gone either way, went in favour of Australia. And a few dismissals that went against India (Dravid, Ganguly etc).

It is hard enough to beat Australia on any given day, but when a few decisions go against you it is near impossible.

That being said, the difference between a good team and a great team is the ability to get past those bad desicions and create more opportunities. That is where India failed, and have only themselves to blame.

I am a little disappointed with Kumbles remarks about the 'spirit of the game'. And the BCCI possible descision to boycott the series. This has gone a little over the top. Surely Kumble and Ponting simple need to sit down, talk about these issues and not make such a big deal out of it. As you said...it is only a game.

-Chimpdaddy-

dozer · 7 Jan 2008 at 14:29

cheets64 said:
The 2 worst teams for sportsmanship.

still upset about 5-0?

bigredshark · 7 Jan 2008 at 14:42

The spirit of the game comments were stupid, making something out of nothing. The only thing that prompted them was clark's catch and in all honesty it was close enough he could have honestly thought he'd caught it (and if he didn't, are the indians really saying they wouldn't have appealed in the same position - really? because if they are I don't believe them...)

Dravid's dismissal was close enough that appealing could be forgiven, maybe it looks obvious in slow motion after 3 replays but the players get it at full speed from one angle once, they could be forgiven for appealing (bearing in mind the criticism some players have received for not supporting their bowlers appeals).

Maybe india deserved the draw here but as I said previously it evens out, the first test in england they did not deserve a draw and got the right side of some close calls...this time their luck was reversed. At the end of the day they could have survived in spite of the bad decisions if they hadn't lost 5 wickets to a couple of part time bowlers in a session and a half...

skaylesh · 7 Jan 2008 at 19:41

pre1twa said:
I'm not sure if I've heard the full story but from what I understand the comments made were certainly racist..... The whole of India certainly dissaproved of what happened between Shilpa Shetty and Jade Goody so maybe the media need to think this one through a little.

I think it really reflected badly on Pakistan in the way they handled the ball-tampering incident of 2006... It would be a shame if the same thing happended with India

People need to remember the comments are allegations - not yet proven. That's why India should feel hard done by - Harbhajan has been punished without impartial evidence (that the public have been made aware of).

The umpires are making themselves look stupid by twice making decisions based on what they have not or do not know (caught/dropped catch & monkey comment).

bigredshark · 7 Jan 2008 at 19:49

skaylesh said:
People need to remember the comments are allegations - not yet proven. That's why India should feel hard done by - Harbhajan has been punished without impartial evidence (that the public have been made aware of).

The umpires are making themselves look stupid by twice making decisions based on what they have not or do not know (caught/dropped catch & monkey comment).

I'm necessarily disagreeing with the sentiment, but he was found guilty by the match referee, unless thats changed on appeal then he is, for now, guilty. As for evidence, well yes but what exactly is the alternative, let him off with it because he wasn't recorded saying it on tv. I can't quite see the australians sitting in the changing room saying 'I know, lets tell the umpires he called roy a monkey' - I mean, why would they??