Australian Grand Prix 2015, Melbourne - Race 1/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Caporegime
Interesting figures. Hmm.
Just clarify, if Ricciardo, does take a 5th engine (or more), each time he takes an extra engine, does he start from the back of the grid in that race OR is he not allowed to use more than 4 engines.
Someone clarify this please.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 46,247
Going to miss most of this 
. Mercedes seem to be continuing where they left off.
. Mercedes seem to be continuing where they left off.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Only interesting if they were running the same stint. If Merc were running the first stint and Ferrari the last, they look terrible, if they were both doing the same effective stint and same fuel load then they look decent.
It's why race sims are useful comparisons in testing because you know they are starting with all the fuel they need and they do normal pit stops, no refueling, so you can compare like with like. At this stage of the season Merc will care more about getting tire data than pushing the engine.
http://f1tests.info/2013.php
2 years ago we had this kind of data. This was fantastic, you could directly see what a stint was, exclude strange laps(Rosberg may have been 1 second up on average but had 2 traffic laps behind slow moving/dying cars limping to the pits which brought the average down), compare stint length, see when they were doing full race sims.
That data gave extremely clear idea of what everyone was up to. Somehow data has since gone back to the dark ages. With Sky/everyone else covering testing by saying "x is way 3 seconds off the pace" when X was only doing long runs and never did a qualifying lap.
With football, with baseball, nfl, basketball you have so much data now, widely available and a lot of it isn't actually meaningful, like aerial duels won in football... a team can win 100% of them and lose a game, it's data but not very useful.
But with F1, lap speed, stint length, the data has been available for years, easily deliverable yet it's probably the single worst sport for presenting it.
FOM on screen data looks prettier this year but is as useless, particularly in testing, as always. Should rotate between fastest lap for 10-20 seconds then do current average lap AND current stint lap number, ie 1:33.2 / 12 laps.
Personally think the colours for teams would be better used representing tire used currently. Do the name, first letter of the name, something in team colour but have that line currently used for team to instead indicate current tire being used.
Soldato
Jesus smr your on one already!
I was asking if he worked for Ferrari because it would be cool if he did. We have a number of F1 team employees on here (RBR, McLaren, Williams, etc) and its always interesting getting team members views.
Calm down smr, Button still loves you.
Anyway, sorry SS, I was just curious. Don't mind smr, he's just up tight. Of course your allowed to say "our".
Nice back pedalling
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Rules this year are, break into a 5th engine and receive a 10 place grid penalty, unlike last year they won't carry over. IE last year if you qualify 17th after taking a new lets say 6th ICE unit you would start at the back and carry a further 5 grid penalties over to the next race.
This year there are changes, if you have grid places left over (only from engine issues, carry over applies if you get penalties for other reasons) then based on the number of positions left you get differing in race penalties.
1-5 places 5 second penalty, 6-10 new 10 second penalty, 11-20 drive through penalty, 20 or more, stop-go penalty. With the 5/10 seconds being either added to a normal pitstop or added at the end of the race if circumstances go that way.
How can you have more than 10 place grid penalty from engines?
Last year again it was effectively open a 6th engine and the first part you take has a 10 grid penalty, the other 4 new parts of the engine when taken get you a 5 grid penalty. Last year if you took and used the entire new engine then you had to start from the pit lane, this year that won't happen so whole new engine and effective 30 place grid penalty... so start from the back and have a stop go penalty in the race.
This year it will just apply to the 5th engine and like last year the 10 place then 5 place penalties happens for each new engine beyond the 4 allowed.
They did surprisingly well last year with 5 engines with not many penalties, 4 might make this year much worse on that side for pretty much everyone. Lots of teams were mixing and matching parts, some parts are likely more serviceable back into life than others.
This year the penalty for taking a full engine is much harsher than last year. Starting from the pits didn't really make a huge difference to starting from the back, some but not monumental, it also kept you safe out of harms way of first corner incidents. A stop-go penalty will leave you way further off the back end of the field than starting from the pit lane.
We don't know what happened to Ricciardo's engine, it's more likely only one or two parts 'died' leaving much of it almost certainly reusable. It's of course possible it is toast, but last year we saw LOADS of situations in which because they have limited time putting in a different engine makes more sense than attempting to fix an engine. Remember Hamilton's engine that was on fire at the start of qualifying. They switched out the engine because they both wouldn't know instantly if that specific engine was fixable at all, but almost certainly not in time for the race. So they put in a new engine(or known working one anyway) and that engine goes back and they try to fix it for a future race. I wouldn't at this stage assume Ricciardo only has 3 engines for the season.
Last edited:
Christ he's on a three year deal, I'm sure he knows what is involved. Bit early to judge on what is clearly an aggressive design on both the packaging and engine designs.
Last edited:
Sounds like you were just asking a question? I thought he did work for them from previous posts as I know we have a few employees on here. I find it a bit odd to say 'our' but there you go
They have changed the rules this year, there's no longer a back of the grid/pit lane start penalty (to prevent the situation they had with Vettel where he didn't bother to try in qualifying).
But as for engines, the Power Units are made of 6 parts. They have 4 of each of the parts. Every time they take a 5th or more of each part they get a grid penalty.
If however they throw the whole PU in the bin and replace the lot with a 5th or more of everything, they now get a stop/go penalty to take in the race.
The ICE that's broken on Ricciardos is only one of the 6 parts. Assuming the other 5 bits that make up the PU are OK, if he takes a 5th ICE later in the season he will get a grid penalty.
Sounds like you were just asking a question? I thought he did work for them from previous posts as I know we have a few employees on here. I find it a bit odd to say 'our' but there you go
I was, but you know what smr is like
I've never supported a single team so don't say "our", but it was more that SS seemed well clued up on Ferrari's development that made me ask, rather than calling the team "our".
Soldato
lol at the difference in overlay graphics. It's like going from iOS 6 to iOS 7
Soldato
Gonna record qualy and watch it when I wake up, but will be here bleary eyed on Sunday morning in time for the grid walk
I was, but you know what smr is like
I've never supported a single team so don't say "our", but it was more that SS seemed well clued up on Ferrari's development that made me ask, rather than calling the team "our".
Haha spending hours reading up on formula 1 and scuderia will do that
Soldato
Apparently qually is on Sky 1 tomorrow, for those that don't have an F1 package.
lol at the difference in overlay graphics. It's like going from iOS 6 to iOS 7
And the Sky overlays are like those apps not updated since iOS 1