Australian Grand Prix 2016, Melbourne - Race 1/21

Skeeter · 23 Mar 2016 at 22:32

Its quite funny how stupid some people are.

There are genuine questions about the rules and if they were breached in order to gain an unfair advantage. But that wasn't about Haas...

When you can't even tell which team its about you need to wonder how much thought has been put in statements as confident as "blatantly cheated" :rolleyes:

.

Glaucus · 23 Mar 2016 at 22:38

But it was about Haas, or you think they were just giving Ferrari time and resources for nothing. Both gained.
Not that I think it was cheating, they saw a massive loop hole and took the opportunity, much like double diffusers and other exploited loopholes. Which have now been closed.

Just because fia doesn't punish doesn't mean that it wasn't blatant cheating. Examples like team orders, which was a cut and dry case, no punishment and changed the rules.

So it isn't as simple as saying no punishment no rule breaking,

JRS · 23 Mar 2016 at 22:44

Glaucus said:
So it isn't as simple as saying no punishment no rule breaking,

No, but it is as simple as saying "no rule breaking, no punishment"!

Glaucus · 23 Mar 2016 at 22:47

JRS said:
No, but it is as simple as saying "no rule breaking, no punishment"!

Easy saying that, impossible to back it up. Which is why the comments should not be belittled as they were. In a childish way.
Haas Ferrari incident is very much up fir debate and is easy to come down on any side.

Even people like scarbs skirt round the issue. Whilst acknowledging things obviously did happen. It's all down to rule interpretation.

Skeeter · 23 Mar 2016 at 23:19

Impossible? It's simple.

The regulations are published. Go find the one Haas broke.

The_Abyss · 23 Mar 2016 at 23:30

Skeeter said:
Is he? The results say he spent 20 laps unable to pass his team mate and finished behind him...

I doubt you'll find many teams who, given the opportunity, would sign Sainz instead of Verstappen. Nothing against Sainz though, I think he's got great potential.

The point I was making was that this season is all about pushing Verstappen to a bigger team.

The_Abyss · 23 Mar 2016 at 23:34

Skeeter said:
Impossible? It's simple.

The regulations are published. Go find the one Haas broke.

This. People just need to get over it. What Haas have done, relative to recent newcomers, is fantastic. They've been doing it for some 2 years now - plenty of time for other teams to raise formal concerns before now.

Good on them. I'm pleased for Fat John too. Given the luxury of a couple more weeks I think he'd now be with Renault. But he wasn't and now, if the cards fall in his favour, he could be at Ferrari in the future. Most likely as a stop gap, but he could still get the chance. In the meantime he's got an real opportunity to impress with Haas.

Skeeter · 23 Mar 2016 at 23:41

There is zero question over Haas' entry and wether they have broken any rules. They have done nothing wrong and have entered the sport with a strong team and a competitive car. They should be applauded.

Where there is a question, is on wether Ferrari cheated. They didn't, obviously, as they would have been penalised if they had. But what they did has since been stopped by the rules being changed to prevent it. But if people are to lazy, stupid, or just determined to have a rant to bother considering the facts before firing off their "opinion" and then getting offended when they are pulled up in it that's their fault.

It's like the whole flexi wing idiot brigade, spouting reem after reem of claims that RBR were cheating, basing their entire argument on a rule that simply doesn't exist.

smr · 23 Mar 2016 at 23:56

I applaud Manor for not giving up and sticking with F1 and their points finish in Monaco, I won't applaud a team who hired 50 Ferrari employees, stuck a Ferrari engine in their car and stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track to get a points finish on their debut.

The_Abyss · 24 Mar 2016 at 00:03

smr said:
I applaud Manor for not giving up and sticking with F1 and their points finish in Monaco, I won't applaud a team who hired 50 Ferrari employees, stuck a Ferrari engine in their car and stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track to get a points finish on their debut.

I do. It worked. They're already more successful than Manor in F1.

Skeeter · 24 Mar 2016 at 00:14

smr said:
I applaud Manor for not giving up and sticking with F1 and their points finish in Monaco, I won't applaud a team who hired 50 Ferrari employees, stuck a Ferrari engine in their car and stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track to get a points finish on their debut.

F1 doesn't need more Manors. It needs more Hass'.

I'm pretty sure your just butt hurt that they beat Button though.

413x · 24 Mar 2016 at 00:16

Is this sour grapes from people who support teams beaten by Haas?

They haven't cheated else they wouldn't be in the grid

I for one like Haas (the owner seems like a decent guy) and I've always like Grosjean.
Exploiting the rules is what f1 is all about

I'd rather 10 teams like Haas than 10 like Manor
But for me f1 is about entertainment as there is nothing pure about it any more

See DRS and the like

All I care about is if it's a good watch on a Sunday evening. Haas and teams like them only help

Skeeter · 24 Mar 2016 at 00:20

413x said:
Is this sour grapes from people who support teams beaten by Haas?

Seems heavily fueled by that, yes. Even within F1 too, Prat Symonds has had a proper moan about it after Grosjean managed to keep a Williams behind him for most of the race.

SS-89 · 24 Mar 2016 at 08:46

So reading jaf1 verstappen compromised his own race and the team by pitting before the team instructed him too. He may be good but that's beyond stupid as he wouldn't know where he'd come out. Still got a lot to learn.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/...-wrong-in-melbourne-and-was-verstappen-right/

On a separate point, if Ferrari can sort out their deployment maybe Bahrain will be a good fight on race day (1 lap pace Merc are still on top).

Something was giving Ferrari concern about being able to run with full deployment for extended periods. It's possible this was connected to Raikkonen's turbo issues that subsequently forced him to retire, but Mercedes engineers looking at the numbers suspect that Ferrari were running their engines less aggressively than in Barcelona testing.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...uld-challenge-mercedes-for-victory-in-bahrain

smr · 24 Mar 2016 at 09:51

Skeeter said:
F1 doesn't need more Manors. It needs more Hass'.

I'm pretty sure your just butt hurt that they beat Button though.

Not butthurt that they beat McLaren at all, that was a freak race with teams not understanding how the mediums ran and not going on them, ridiculous tyre choices and strategy from McLaren, first race of the year etc. whilst Haas lucked in to a strategy and red flag which threw a spanner in the works for other teams.

I wouldn't be happy if Grosjean finished the season with more points than Button but that ain't gonna happen, so no, not butt hurt as you so eloquently put it.

413x · 24 Mar 2016 at 10:03

Haas could do very well if they improve during the year
Fingers crossed

Love a bit of F1 jealousy!

JRS · 24 Mar 2016 at 10:26

smr said:
I applaud Manor for not giving up and sticking with F1 and their points finish in Monaco

So do I.

smr said:
I won't applaud a team who hired 50 Ferrari employees, stuck a Ferrari engine in their car and stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track to get a points finish on their debut.

Then you're a complete fool.

'Hired 50 Ferrari employees' - what's wrong with hiring experienced people?
'Stuck a Ferrari engine in their car' - okay, whose engine should they have used then?
'Stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track' - well, God forbid that a new team should arrive prepared, eh?

MooMoo444 · 24 Mar 2016 at 10:41

Can we try a new record, this one is a bit samey

JRS · 24 Mar 2016 at 10:56

You're right.

Moving on, or not as the case may very well be - any change to the qualifying format for Bahrain has to be decided today. Bernard Charles Ecclestone wants to stick with the new format for a while longer, the teams were unanimous in wanting it gone, and the drivers want to see the rulemaking process for the sport reformed so that crapola like this doesn't happen. Bets on the winner?

smr · 24 Mar 2016 at 11:03

JRS said:
Then you're a complete fool.

'Hired 50 Ferrari employees' - what's wrong with hiring experienced people?
'Stuck a Ferrari engine in their car' - okay, whose engine should they have used then?
'Stuck a strong mentored CFD, wind tunnel driven chassis on the track' - well, God forbid that a new team should arrive prepared, eh?

I didn't say there was anything wrong with those things, I said I won't applaud them for it, scoring points is the least they should be able to do given the way they've been gifted into the sport compared to the likes of Manor, HRT etc. who had to start from the ground up, Haas OTOH have been aided tremendously and started half way up the ladder.