Australian Grand Prix 2016, Melbourne - Race 1/21

[El_Watcher]

The likes of Toto or Horner or Arrivabenne will not have seen/heard that and gone "that's a guy I want to put in my car".

If that were even slightly true, Hamilton would not be in the Mercedes (always moaning about stuff at Mclaren), Vettel would not be at Ferrari (how many times did he moan about Webber, several), and Kimi would not be in F1 period.

 

[DM8104]

He also goes on to say.

Have to agree. We shouldn't be too fussed about increasing the speed, its about increasing mechanical grip, and reducing aero downforce.

The directive for 2017 shouldn't be "faster by 5 seconds", but simply "make racing more exciting", which I think includes, improve overtaking, better looking cars (wider tyres, less aero, for example), louder, more tyre choice, no mandatory tyres to use each GP, no DRS limit (or just remove it). Lots of things can be done.

Having a "faster by 5 seconds" goal just makes the window too narrow for changing things.

 

[Skeeter]

If that were even slightly true, Hamilton would not be in the Mercedes (always moaning about stuff at Mclaren), Vettel would not be at Ferrari (how many times did he moan about Webber, several), and Kimi would not be in F1 period.

You can ***** and moan and swear all you like when your winning.

Max shouted and swore and... got beaten by his team mate.

 

[Skeeter]

Have to agree. We shouldn't be too fussed about increasing the speed, its about increasing mechanical grip, and reducing aero downforce.

The directive for 2017 shouldn't be "faster by 5 seconds", but simply "make racing more exciting", which I think includes, improve overtaking, better looking cars (wider tyres, less aero, for example), louder, more tyre choice, no mandatory tyres to use each GP, no DRS limit (or just remove it). Lots of things can be done.

Having a "faster by 5 seconds" goal just makes the window too narrow for changing things.

You do realize that its no longer a directive or a goal, but that the 2017 regulations regarding everything other than technicalities around the engine and costs has already been finalized and agreed?

The 2017 aero, tyre and chassis rules have all been confirmed. The deadline was the 28th Feb.

 

[smr]

Formula 1 is heading in the wrong direction with the way Haas has arrived in F1 despite its brilliant point-scoring debut, says Williams technical chief Pat Symonds.

Haas produced one of the biggest surprises of the season opener when good timing for a tyre change during the red flag period helped Romain Grosjean secure a sixth place finish.

But despite the delight many felt at the Haas team's debut performance, Symonds has questioned if it is right that teams should be heading down the 'customer car' route.

"I think that the status of being a constructor is being gradually eroded," said Symonds. "And some would like it completely eroded.

"I think what Haas has done is good for him, but I don't know if that's the way F1 should be going.

"It is totally legal, but is it really what F1 wants? I'm not sure."

Listed parts

Haas has formed a close technical partnership with Ferrari, which as well as engines includes it buying as many Ferrari car components as are allowed under the 'listed parts' regulations.

Symonds thinks that expanding what teams are allowed to share could ultimately spell the demise of constructor teams.

"I think that when we had the listed parts, the original listed parts, it was quite pragmatic," he said.

"It allowed you to sell a few sensible things like transmissions that are high value, low performance impact. But it got whittled away, and some wanted it whittled even further.

"I would prefer F1 to have more of an emphasis on constructors."

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/symonds-doubts-haas-approach-is-right-for-f1-681742/

 

[ZG002]

It's not working though, even the giants struggle to see the value in F1. A smaller team has no chance tbh!

Of course Williams is going to come out and say the above, I'd expect nothing less.

 

[JRS]

Prat "Integrity" Symonds there, ladies and gentlemen, proving that he hasn't got a ******* clue.

And I still love how it's Williams who are anti customer cars. The same Williams who got their start in F1 by....*drumroll*....running a customer car. Both in the Frank Williams Racing Cars days - a Brabham for Piers Courage in '69 - and the current Williams Grand Prix Engineering incarnation - running a March in '77.

 

[Skeeter]

Yep. Such a ****.

So many stupid people in F1. Does he think F1 should have more Caterhams, Manors and HRTs then?

Argh! It makes me so angry!

 

[FrankJH]

yes i know Ferrari B team yada yada, but to me they are already more prominent than Manor (8 years....), im all up for it.

Its embarrassing for the Haas to be better than McLaren already

Ferrari was last year so OF COURSE Haas is this year - it was to be expected no matter how well Honda improved (or not)

If they had used their own engineers and "grown" their own experience as they should have done , it would be more fair

(I have no problem then hiring engineers from other teams - but how this was done smelt worse than a dodgy kebab)

Total justification that the FIAs team selection process is useless, and the way a team should be brought into F1 is to follow the Haas approach. Anyone who says the Haas approach is wrong is missunderstanding what F1 needs, or is simply butt hurt that they beat their favorite team on their debut.

Sometimes you get a firm grip on the completely WRONG end of the stick and wont let go.

This has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Haas blatantly cheated (even worse than TR did when they first came in - because from what I recall they didn't use RBR enginners EN MASSE with the same - winning in the sense of points compared to where they were - engine etc etc etc.)

Just because the FIA decided to blank this, doesn't actually mean anything at all

 

[Skeeter]

If your going to go on a shouting match, at least get your facts straight.

Haas didn't cheat. Everything they have done is perfectly within the rules.

Toro Rosso arrived in F1 with an entire chassis built by the same people as Red Bull.

I'd hate to know what your view was on Super Aguri!



Haas rock up to F1 as a new team and immediately seem competitive, far more so than any new team from the last 7 years, and all people want to do is knock them down! "Grown their own experiences like they should have done", lol, wind your neck in grandpa, who made you regulator?

The suggestion that F1 gaining a new team thats competitive is anything other than a good thing is utter stupid crazy talk.

 

[DM8104]

You do realize that its no longer a directive or a goal, but that the 2017 regulations regarding everything other than technicalities around the engine and costs has already been finalized and agreed?

The 2017 aero, tyre and chassis rules have all been confirmed. The deadline was the 28th Feb.

I know now then, thanks. . I'm still looking forward to changes, I just hope the actual racing improves, and the following in dirty air situation doesn't get worse. I don't care about the times getting faster really. I mean, the pole time from Melbourne race was already 2.5 seconds faster.

 

[Glaucus]

wind your neck in grandpa, who made you regulator?

.

Rofl, who made you regulator with all your ideas and opinions.hahahahaha

 

[JRS]

Well, that didn't take long for this season to turn childish did it? Well done guys.

*slowclap*

FrankJH - nothing Haas have done here was or is outside of the rules. So saying 'waaaaaaaaaaaaaah they cheated' is disingenuous of you at best (I'm assuming that you actually have bothered to find out on what they collaborated with Ferrari) and downright idiotic at worst.

Glaucus - everyone has something to bring to this conversation, perhaps you should bring silence

 

[Glaucus]

Oh dear, so pointing out a bit of hypocrisy is wrong is it?

Skeeter has a lot of his own opinions and ideas, so why does he think someone else should not have theirs.

 

[V F]

Well, that didn't take long for this season to turn childish did it? Well done guys.

*slowclap*

 

[JRS]

Saying someone cheated isn't posting an opinion about something, or throwing out some idea to be debated. It's just an untrue statement in this case. Stuff like:

Haas blatantly cheated (even worse than TR did when they first came in - because from what I recall they didn't use RBR enginners EN MASSE with the same - winning in the sense of points compared to where they were - engine etc etc etc.)

Which is absolute rubbish. STR joined F1 with what was basically the Red Bull RB1 repainted (barely) and with the engine limited a bit due to the new V8 formula coming in (they used a V10 with restrictions on power output). Way, way more was shared with the parent company than what Haas have used from Ferrari to enter this year.

And then this little pearl of wisdom right at the end:

Just because the FIA decided to blank this, doesn't actually mean anything at all

Because of course it means everything! The FIA - in theory - set the rules that everyone abides by, Haas did so, end of argument.

 

[Glaucus]

So you and skeeter have never disagreed with fia, never said a driver or team have cheated, unless fia have given out sanctions.
Pull another one, you and everyone else in this thread has done exactly that.

Off course it's an opinion. Just because they weren't caught/sanctioned. Doesn't mean cheating isn't happening.

 

[JRS]

So you and skeeter have never disagreed with fia, never said a driver or team have cheated, unless fia have given out sanctions.
Pull another one, you and everyone else in this thread has done exactly that.

Off course it's an opinion. Just because they weren't caught/sanctioned. Doesn't mean cheating isn't happening.

Good Lord, where to even start....

Okay Glaucus. Show me the rule that Haas broke.

 

[Glaucus]

Good Lord, where to even start....

Okay Glaucus. Show me the rule that Haas broke.

Where to start, please show where I said they have.
However it's hardly an untouched subject even the teams asked fir clarification and lots of speculation throughout the last few years.
So it's hardly a new opinion someone's having on there own. A lot of people even within the sport think they have at least pushed if not broken the rules in data and other sharing.

Not that any off that was my point, I had one point and that was his blunt uncalled for hypocrism. On something he himself has done plenty of times in the past.

 

[JRS]

Where to start, please show where I said they have.

So you don't agree with FrankJH's point at all then? That's good. I was beginning to worry about you.

*after your edit*

A lot of people even within the sport think they have at least pushed if not broken the rules in data and other sharing.

Really? Lots of people raised questions about Haas gaining an advantage this way? That's not exactly how I remember it. I mean, Mercedes raised a question back in Abu Dhabi last year - but that was about Ferrari gaining an advantage, not Haas. The Mercedes point was that Ferrari ***could*** have gained use of effectively unlimited CFD and wind tunnel time by working with a team who wasn't actually in F1 yet and therefore not subject to the limitations put in place by the FIA.