Auto or manual

xs2man said:
Modern autos are generally faster as they can change faster than a human.
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depends on the Auto, the older slush boxes were all much slower than a manual - New dual clutch and ZF Autos are far faster.

Even with the faster autos they will never truly replicate that accurate and reassuring connection to the engine that a good manual box provides - and I emphasise a good manual as there are good and bad ones. I have been lucky enough to drive Honda and more recently Subaru manuals - the Subaru 6MT is very good. On a B road there is only 1 winner as to which is better.

So its not a straightforward answer... you will need to drive both and make your own mind up, if you are stuck in traffic a lot it makes sense to get an auto - i would have sold my Subaru as i was in that position but quit my job and moved house..so i could keep the manual.

that's dedication. :p
 
Phemo said:
Can only agree with everyone else. My 320D is a manual but I spend a fair bit of time driving my wife’s X3 which is an auto. My next car will definitely be an auto.
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All the diesel manuals i had were horrific, get a high performance petrol manual and see the difference.
 
I've flitted between auto's and manuals for years in my cars and like both in the right application (on older stuff certainly) , loved the auto in my 735i hated the manual in my Focus, love the manual in my Current Volvo V70 D5 and I love the auto (which effectively is a clutchless manual) in my Scania R Series HGV - years back a manual over an auto truck was a given, not these days and the same goes for modern cars, even performance ones - the fact the previous two generations of BMW's M5 has only been available in europe as an auto says it all, it was available as a manual in the states yet widely regarded as unsuited to the car...

Ultimately, modern ones change faster than a driver ever could, can pick the right ratio's due to GPS guidance and is one less thing for the driver to worry about, which helps driving for the vast majority I'd say.
 
Bug One said:
You're buying a Mondeo. Is the fraction of a difference between 0-60 times really that important?
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Not really, I just don't want to put my foot down and it be sluggish when changing gear, as this is expertise ive had in some vans, yes I know cars are different, I welcome all option lol.
 
ericmcn said:
Even with the faster autos they will never truly replicate that accurate and reassuring connection to the engine that a good manual box provides - and I emphasise a good manual as there are good and bad ones. I have been lucky enough to drive Honda and more recently Subaru manuals - the Subaru 6MT is very good. On a B road there is only 1 winner as to which is better.
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I'm quite surprised by the auto in my pickup - sure being a big diesel there is some turbo lag - but it is basically the transmission/electronics from the 370Z with some tweaks so stick it in sport and drive positively and it is surprisingly good (and you get engine braking, etc. for days). The normal driving mode was changed at some point to be an "eco" mode so in normal driving it tends to feel a bit sluggish/holding gears different to how you would drive manually.

Mr mondeo said:
Not really, I just don't want to put my foot down and it be sluggish when changing gear, as this is expertise ive had in some vans, yes I know cars are different, I welcome all option lol.
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If it has kick-down then you can get it to instantly change profile (usually resulting in dropping down a gear) to provide maximum power when you really need to go foot to the floor. No idea if the auto on the Mondeo does.
 
Rroff said:
I'm quite surprised by the auto in my pickup - sure being a big diesel there is some turbo lag - but it is basically the transmission/electronics from the 370Z with some tweaks so stick it in sport and drive positively and it is surprisingly good (and you get engine braking, etc. for days). The normal driving mode was changed at some point to be an "eco" mode so in normal driving it tends to feel a bit sluggish/holding gears different to how you would drive manually.



If it has kick-down then you can get it to instantly change profile (usually resulting in dropping down a gear) to provide maximum power when you really need to go foot to the floor. No idea if the auto on the Mondeo does.
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Experience* opinion*

Makes sense. Thanks for input
 
ShiWarrior said:
good point !
yeah manual Sports car , do tend to fetch high values, im more talking the run of the mill cars
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All the old classics going up in price, BMW Z3M, Alfa GTV V6 , Honda NSX etc are more expensive in manual. My Subaru manual is probably 2x the cost of an Auto equivalent. Its just down to the fact some people (real drivers ;) ) just appreciate a good old manual better.

I think manuals will be highly desirable in a few years time when drivers get sick of all the autos that were tossed around nowadays.
 
Rilot said:
For me, a manual only has a place in a sports car. Think; Mazda MX5, Caterham, S2000, Boxter etc. Anything normal should be auto. The way I see it is if I'm driving somewhere I have to be (work, meeting, shopping etc) then I want to get there with as little fuss and hassle as possible. Choosing what gear to be in I see on the same level as faffing with the heater controls on a pre climate-control car.
However in a sports car when one is driving purely for the pleasure of it and the feeling of involvement, you can't beat a manual and 3 pedals.
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Modern Autos are faster, older slush boxes far slower.

sandys said:
The mechanical involvement I think @Toothy1911 was referring to was the interaction with man and machine, moving to auto means you loose that, auto are faster and smoother than manual but even with flappy paddle don't offer the driver interaction with the machine, so if you like the act of driving, doing the gears, getting the pedals right etc, auto won't be for you, I find them absolutely dull and wouldn't choose it for a car I want to enjoy but for the trundle through Bristol in stop start traffic auto is amazing.
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exactly this, i think the Subaru 6MT on my car is about £11k to buy from Subaru, obviously cheaper 2nd hand but will still be a fair wedge but it shows that a good manual transmission is precision engineering and best for the enthusiasts.
 
ericmcn said:
All the diesel manuals i had were horrific, get a high performance petrol manual and see the difference.
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Indeed. That's another thing auto boxes are good for - they somewhat mask the nastiness of diesel. Not entirely, but it makes them a better experience. Alas in my job with the annual mileage I do, diesel just makse sense right now.
 
Rilot said:
For me, a manual only has a place in a sports car. Think; Mazda MX5, Caterham, S2000, Boxter etc. Anything normal should be auto. The way I see it is if I'm driving somewhere I have to be (work, meeting, shopping etc) then I want to get there with as little fuss and hassle as possible. Choosing what gear to be in I see on the same level as faffing with the heater controls on a pre climate-control car.
However in a sports car when one is driving purely for the pleasure of it and the feeling of involvement, you can't beat a manual and 3 pedals.
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are you ok with the drama of opening a door..?!
 
Not to mention auto gearboxes from past have much more chance to break causing huge expense, whereas manuals are easier to fix, hence cost of ownership and risk is smaller, so price go up faster that in case of more riskier models..
That's my take on this particular point.

As per original topic - auto. I live in London, for many years drove through central areas, I would not survived mentally without auto.
Yes, more expensive to run, less economical, I get it. Trade that cost for just relaxing and knowing I have power when I want as I want it.
Driving Skoda Superb 2.0 diesel 170bhp DSG.
 
Phemo said:
Indeed. That's another thing auto boxes are good for - they somewhat mask the nastiness of diesel. Not entirely, but it makes them a better experience. Alas in my job with the annual mileage I do, diesel just makse sense right now.
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Why I like my V6s especially when it comes to diesel. Though still have the somewhat unpredictable turbo lag a times.
 
theone8181 said:
Tbh I don't see the point in a manual diesel in newer cars (as in say 10 years old or less) as the power band is so small it must be hard to stay in it.
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the ones i had were not that old, the oldest was a Merc i had as a replacement for my CL55 AMG - it was about 2 or 2.5 Litres, it was bad. Then i had hire cars, VAG 2.0 TDi things and work rep mobiles - all more recent cars and they were just crap.
 
I used to have a manual diesel, whilst yes the rpms are low the ratios are such that you could enjoy running it through gears to its redline in much the same way as a petrol, I would drive my tuned Alfa GT diesel on track and enjoy more than nearly every auto I have tried recently, even with the dagadaga noise, but then I am weird like that as I also find the latest electrics from Tesla and Polestar etc, dull too, I guess I just like noise and a lack of refinement of ICE along with being busy doing my own gears, freak :D
 
ericmcn said:
depends on the Auto, the older slush boxes were all much slower than a manual - New dual clutch and ZF Autos are far faster.

Even with the faster autos they will never truly replicate that accurate and reassuring connection to the engine that a good manual box provides - and I emphasise a good manual as there are good and bad ones. I have been lucky enough to drive Honda and more recently Subaru manuals - the Subaru 6MT is very good. On a B road there is only 1 winner as to which is better.

So its not a straightforward answer... you will need to drive both and make your own mind up, if you are stuck in traffic a lot it makes sense to get an auto - i would have sold my Subaru as i was in that position but quit my job and moved house..so i could keep the manual.

that's dedication. :p
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This is why I said modern autos. Rather than the older slush box autos really. I was no fan of the 6 speed ZF in my e91 335d. But the 8 speed in my F11 530d was excellent. And I like the DSG in my Caravelle.
 
Yea not all of them are good. It's only the best dual clutches which are quicker really. But the more aggressively you set it up the worse it is at low speed and normal driving. It's not analogue like a manual. Torque converter types are slow but much smoother.
 
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Wow so many people prefer automatic gearboxes, one if the many reason the manual gearbox is dying out not many car are now produced with a manual. Its such a shame as driving a manual give me such a sense of achievement. There a technique to drive a manual properly its a bit of an art and I think in the next 5-10 years especially with EV cars we will lose the manual gearbox forever.

I'm a manual driver no matter if its daily driving or for fun, I am dreading the day when I will be forced to switch to auto as driving will lose all its fun
 
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