Auto or manual

To go against the echo chamber...

I enjoy changing gears, be it under normal driving conditions, or driving for fun. Do I "feel" like a real driver? No, I just prefer it.

I've driven PDK, DSG, ZF autos (and not just for a quick poke) and yeah they were all fantastic gearboxes. Super slick, super fast, some odd quirks at times like dropping gears when I've barely touched the go pedal, but overall great and easy to drive. No doubt they impressed me, but they definitely took something away from the experience for me.

I know car ownership seems a lot more throw away these days than times before, but I feel the reason people get bored of their "performance cars" or want more and more power is down to the cars being less involving and too easy to drive, and a lot of that is to do with the gearbox, IMO.
 
Nasher said:
Yea not all of them are good. It's only the best dual clutches which are quicker really. But the more aggressively you set it up the worse it is at low speed and normal driving. It's not analogue like a manual. Torque converter types are slow but much smoother.
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More LOL Nasher.

A DCT can be calibrated to give brutally hard shifts at full chat and remain smooth as butter during low speed normal driving.

Modern torque converters aren't slow either, the ZF8HP has a shift time of circa 200ms
 
Frozennova said:
More LOL Nasher.

A DCT can be calibrated to give brutally hard shifts at full chat and remain smooth as butter during low speed normal driving.

Modern torque converters aren't slow either, the ZF8HP has a shift time of circa 200ms
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Sure but you will get a small delay when you put your foot down as it switches from one mode to another. Along with horrible jolts as it changes gear.
 
I've driven manuals for 12 years, next car will definitely be an Auto (unless I ended up with something like an S2000). The amount of traffic on the roads around Manchester it's just a pain now.
 
FlapR said:
I've driven manuals for 12 years, next car will definitely be an Auto (unless I ended up with something like an S2000). The amount of traffic on the roads around Manchester it's just a pain now.
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Definitely! I'm fortunate in some regards in my commute is either <6am or >9am, but the days when I have to do 9-5, traffic both ends of the day is horrid!
 
paradigm said:
Driving a paddle shift makes you not a "real" driver. I do wonder what Lewis Hamilton puts down as his profession, fake F1 driver? :p
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What's he like in a normal car, though?
I've known several fighter pilots, including naval ones who land on aircraft carriers. There's absolutely no denying the skills with which they pilot their custom-designed aircraft with controls specifically designed to achieve high performance manoeuvres... but many will admit (though it may take a couple of drinks, out of earshot of the other pilots) that they're kinda **** when it comes to flying regular aircraft...

Additionally, several former F1 drivers asserts that the cars are much easier to drive nowadays and even Hamilton has said it's not enough of a challenge.

flame696 said:
I'm a manual driver no matter if its daily driving or for fun, I am dreading the day when I will be forced to switch to auto as driving will lose all its fun
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I'm with you, mate.

phil-k said:
I have a Honda CR-V Automatic with manual shift paddles and I love it, so much easier and more relaxing to drive, especially in traffic jams not having to change in and out of gear
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Aw dude.... I'm so sorry to hear that. My wife drives one, too... you have my sympathies! :p
 
FlapR said:
I've driven manuals for 12 years, next car will definitely be an Auto (unless I ended up with something like an S2000). The amount of traffic on the roads around Manchester it's just a pain now.
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Yeah the increase in traffic is a big part in what changed my mind.
 
Rroff said:
Yeah the increase in traffic is a big part in what changed my mind.
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Likewise, I live just outside Liverpool city centre so even just commuting out to see family or to the office is nothing but traffic light after traffic light after traffic light. Even for the 10-15 mins I'm in the car to closer destinations is more than enough for me to be thankful for having an auto. Even more so when I live on a street with nothing but terraced houses - the creep function in the auto is lovely to inch just the tiniest bit forward and backwards while parking, without constantly slipping the clutch in a manual or a dual-clutch auto which aren't that great, even with a "synthetic creep" that a few have.
 
paradigm said:
Driving a paddle shift makes you not a "real" driver. I do wonder what Lewis Hamilton puts down as his profession, fake F1 driver? :p
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People always bring this up but lets be honest that driving is another level to enjoying a drive on a country road or trackday in a road car, they are making many other adjustments on the wheel on the fly all at silly speeds and G-forces, there is no parallel to that level of performance in a road car, I'll let that faker off for his auto :p ;)
 
[TW]Fox said:
No I'm referring to the Mini. I wanted the auto and she wanted the manual :(
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yeah well like i said not all manuals are the same. Try driving a Honda Civic Type R, A Subaru WRX STi, A Porsche 911, Lotus Evora, BMW M3, Fiests ST ... and you wont come to the same conclusion. There are good manuals that invigorate the soul and there are bad ones
 
Normal manual vs performance car manual are worlds apart. Cars like the S2000 and more "raw" stuff is like a bolt action rifle. You can change gears much quicker and barely need to lift off, some you don't need to lift off.
 
And for people against manuals have a look at this Nissan 200SX

This is a skilled driver, he bossed the Nürburgring Nordschleife - He knew exactly when to change up a gear, drop down and had total control of his car. All the cars he overtook (ie mostly everyone)... quite a few were automatics..and not cheap at that

that's why Manuals are so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Itn2IdWHM
 
Nasher said:
Normal manual vs performance car manual are worlds apart. Cars like the S2000 and more "raw" stuff is like a bolt action rifle. You can change gears much quicker and barely need to lift off, some you don't need to lift off.
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Honda make great manuals, even my mum's Jazz is miles better than most run of the mill ones out there. The manual in my Subaru is excellent also (Legacy SpecB 6MT is shared with the STi apart from the final gear ratio), within 2 minutes of a test drive in the back roads of camberley i just had to buy it
 
ericmcn said:
And for people against manuals have a look at this Nissan 200SX

This is a skilled driver, he bossed the Nürburgring Nordschleife - He knew exactly when to change up a gear, drop down and had total control of his car. All the cars he overtook (ie mostly everyone)... quite a few were automatics..and not cheap at that

that's why Manuals are so good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Itn2IdWHM
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This is what convinced me to finaly buy a Lotus :D

https://youtu.be/xtjHlfYrB6U?t=226

He did a good job of getting the feel on camera (if you turn the volume right up lol).
 
Might have been a lemon.

My cheap Renault commuting car is a manual and that isn't too bad. There isn't much slop in it like some of the alternatives I tried.
 
Mr mondeo said:
Looking at 2016/17 ecoboost 246bhp (auto)
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I own a 66 plate one of these. Mine the 2.0 petrol estate with the same engine / gearbox as your looking at. There are a few things to consider that easily get forgotten. Although ford slap the powershift name on everything automatic the gearbox in that paticular model is not a true "powershift" model, in that it's not dual clutch, but is the old torque convertor slush box. I believe this is different down the range and if you have the 1.5 petrol or some of the disels it is indeed the dual clutch, but in the 240bhp petrol, its definately a 6 speed torque convertor.

For me it does the job, but it's definately a lazy gearbox. I switched from a 2010 Octavia VRS and whilst theres very little in it in terms of figures on their 0-60 times the Mondeo certainly doesn't feel as quick as the Octavia did. Theres no clunkiness to mine as some others desribe and I think thats isolated to the earlier ford dual clutch system, unless your looking for it you cant really feel the one in these change gears beyond the revs changing.

In standard D mode it can sometimes get tripped up on very low speed corners where it doesnt always change down / up quick enough between 1st and 2nd leaving you with lag for just a moment or two, but at any time your doing a reasonable speed its simply a waft box. The only other thing that occasionally gets it is planting your foot to the floor without overriding it on the pedals. There will be a noticeable delay whilst the box drops from 6th to 4th or 5th to 3rd depending on the speed, but then your off and away. The rest of the time its nice and relaxing and it just takes care of everything for you without you ever really noticing it.

In sport mode its a different beast, changes are much quicker and it holds on to revs much longer, and the pit falls I mention above are removed. You can sometimes get pitfalls the opposite way around where coming out of a low speed corner you drop from 2nd to 1st and your off and away quicker than expect, or doing a short overtake you end up say in 3rd doing 5000rpm for a few seconds until it realises your not still needing it and drops down, but again, these kinds of instances are rare. It's certainly a much more fun experience in sport mode and is great for country lanes, even more so when combined with the pedals (keeping in mind what a big beast it is).

The big problem with this model though is the fuel economy. The book figures are....... optomistic..... and the real world economy is dire. The best I've ever had from mine was on a straight shot from Nottingham to Edinburgh and even that only managed 34MPG and I was driving it relatively sensibly with 95% of the tank being on motorways. My general average with mainly short trips is around 25MPG, but I've seen it as low as 20 across a tank over winter doing just short trips. If your hoping to see 30 real world mpg you will be disappointed.

Hope this helps!
 
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