Back garden - new patio (Indian sandstone) DIY log

Buffman

Buffman

Buffman

Soldato
Joined
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Posts
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Location
West Midlands
Hi all,

Edit: Thread is now a progress log of build/update

I have attached pictures of my current back patio area. It currently has 3 seperate sections which consist of decking, gravel and a small section of paving + a veg patch. I'd like to get this one singular material (probably paving) and looking at paving and something low /no maintenance.

I bought the house this way (extension ~10years old) and the pic of the decking is from a couple years ago when I cleaned it.

Would I be able to raise the level at the singular door close to the damp proof course (DPC) and grade it down towards the edges nearest the plants?

E.g. If I put shingle or a threshold drain near the door? Could I have similar done at the bifolds?

Ideally I'd make it all level or higher access near the doors and grade it suitably downwards (e.g. 1:60 or have it steeper near the doors. Not sure if the smarter idea would be 75mm (i.e 1 brick) off DPC rather than 0mm.

As I understand it building regs wants 150mm minimum to the damp proof course, but understand mitigation measures can be put in place e.g what's indicated here

www.pavingexpert.com

Threshold Drainage Solutions

A look at some of the paving design solutions used at thresholds to comply with the driveway installation planning requirements and the requirements of Document M of the Building Regulations
www.pavingexpert.com www.pavingexpert.com


Main issue I'm going to have is that the access to my back garden is poor, I'm going to have to carry everything through the house as it's built on all sides (I'm thinking 25kg builders buckets and get 1 tonne bags of mot etc to the front)


Paving type
What type of paving would you recommend? I have a lot of trees in the area, an apple tree from next door above and I prefer the paving with a less flat and more ridged type surface. Also being "diy friendly" to fit is good as I might /likely to do this myself. I've done tiling before and happy for porcelain paving but don't want it to look too "flat"

I previously posted about sorting my decking out below. Whilst it's held up and not slippery some areas are rotting /bowing

Extremely Slippery decking - can it be rejuvenated?

Hi all, Move into my new house end of this month (finally exchanged). One thing I know for sure is that the decking outside of the house is extremely slippy and a complete fall trap. I know it was installed in circa 2013 but possibly hasn't been well maintained since then. There are lots of...
forums.overclockers.co.uk forums.overclockers.co.uk


Pictures
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6tPFogm.jpeg

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To give an indication that the garden is long below
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O6kzLFO.jpeg
 
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If you are going for a finish height for the paving to be around the threshold of the doors, could you get it to fall into the garden passed the gravel? They recommend 13mm but 10mm per linear metre gets a nice bubble. (Bifolds to lawn 7-8 metres?)

Whatever way you go thats a lot of type 1 to be carrying through the house in buckets. I'm estimating 10+ 800kg bags, depending on digging out. Then sand and cement. It doesnt matter how careful you are there will be mess and the odd knocked door frame.

Have you go access on the front for a crane to lift the materials over? If you get your order of work sorted out they could lift your waste back over for the skip. Or if you do go porcelain how about laying them on a concrete base. You could get the mix boomed over or possibly pumped through the house straight into your formwork then tile. Its tricky with no access.
 
Lean said:
If you are going for a finish height for the paving to be around the threshold of the doors, could you get it to fall into the garden passed the gravel? They recommend 13mm but 10mm per linear metre gets a nice bubble. (Bifolds to lawn 7-8 metres?)

Whatever way you go thats a lot of type 1 to be carrying through the house in buckets. I'm estimating 10+ 800kg bags, depending on digging out. Then sand and cement. It doesnt matter how careful you are there will be mess and the odd knocked door frame.

Have you go access on the front for a crane to lift the materials over? If you get your order of work sorted out they could lift your waste back over for the skip. Or if you do go porcelain how about laying them on a concrete base. You could get the mix boomed over or possibly pumped through the house straight into your formwork then tile. Its tricky with no access.
Click to expand...


Hah massive thread bump for this one, but yes I would be aiming for the fall all towards the garden on this one.

Ive reasssed this one and I'm going to:
DIY it all in summer (I might try pay my nephew labourer money :D)
I will carry it all in and buy 25kg bags (of MOT etc) to make it a bit quicker. I think there's a bit of a premium but hey. I think you are right in that it will be literally hundreds of bags.

Crane access seems unnecessary, I'd rather carry bags thru.

I'm also now thinking I dont really "need" level access and keeping the paving at a level similar to the decking (two bricks below) is fine.

Could all the drainage fall towards the grass side then?

And I presume if my grass area is higher than the end of the paving I'll need to dig out the grass /soil so it's slightly lower and "taper" it back into the rest of the ground.

I presume making a soakaway etc isn't necessary but to be honest I could make all that stuff afterwards if it's nearer the grassed side.
 
Started this job now. All the decking was rotten. It was growing mushrooms in it, had a family of frogs, lizards and a graveyard of snails.

Next up taking the stones and slabs out.

Any ideas why there's a second drain pipe on the left? Presumably I can just put something over this as it isn't required? I was considering stones and a perforated pipe around the house even though the fall will be away from it regardless.

PktZePX.jpeg


rQbPXoq.jpeg
 
Tesla said:
Which drainage pipes are you referring to?
Click to expand...
The drainage pipes are from the gutters and also there is one either side of the bifold doors.

I'm also wondering if they are connected to a combined sewer or not (as if I were to connect drainage aco's or pipes to it they'd smell if there's no u bend)

Left of the bifolds - not sure what this is for :

Vdxy4Nd.jpeg


KwQ8jxC.jpeg



Also taken up the old patio - it was spot leveled onto about 25mm of compacted mot :(. Laid like crap :D.

Ive filled 1 skip and getting another in..

Wondering now about which way to run the falls of the patio


w2MyNJZ.jpeg



Vbb0iVt.jpeg


WA9TUZT.jpeg
 
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Lean said:
If you are going for a finish height for the paving to be around the threshold of the doors, could you get it to fall into the garden passed the gravel? They recommend 13mm but 10mm per linear metre gets a nice bubble. (Bifolds to lawn 7-8 metres?)

Whatever way you go thats a lot of type 1 to be carrying through the house in buckets. I'm estimating 10+ 800kg bags, depending on digging out. Then sand and cement. It doesnt matter how careful you are there will be mess and the odd knocked door frame.

Have you go access on the front for a crane to lift the materials over? If you get your order of work sorted out they could lift your waste back over for the skip. Or if you do go porcelain how about laying them on a concrete base. You could get the mix boomed over or possibly pumped through the house straight into your formwork then tile. Its tricky with no access.
Click to expand...
Just re reading your question, would a fall towards the garden not be more likely to cause wet patches in grass which get erroded with dog walking on them etc?

I was thinking of doing what I've indicated below.

Anyone see any issues with making the fall on this indian sandstone patio (60m2) to left and right? It will be going to a perforated pipe (covered by decorative stone).

I was not going to connect to the gutters and existing presumed soakaway as I don't know if it can take this much extra water, is that a bad idea? There is plenty shrubs /plants etc around the border of the patio and will continue to be. I could connect to/build a new soakaway in future if needs be.

Red is line of fall, blue is proposed patio boundary


ltTKFEU.jpeg
 
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Yes, it goes down the side of the house in an undergroud pipe and basically soaks away into a bank in the fromnt garden.

A majority of the prep work, the easy (hard work but no brain / experience needed) but time consuming stuff like you're doing. Got a local guy in who came well reccomended to do the slabs and make sure the water all ran the right way.
 
Done the dig out for this now. Filled out about 10tonnes in a skip

Ordered 14 tonnes of MOT to come next week which I'm going to carry through the house and use as a sub base.

Going for a riven type raj green sandstone from here probably
www.londonstone.co.uk

Tumbled Raj Green Sandstone Paving

Tumbled Raj Green Sandstone Paving, with its cheerful mix of colours dominated by a subtle light green similar to Yorkstone, looks instantly weathered. More lightly riven than other sandstones, this tumbled sandstone paving blends well in a wide range of traditional settings, immediately looking...
www.londonstone.co.uk www.londonstone.co.uk





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Buffman said:
Red is line of fall, blue is proposed patio boundary


ltTKFEU.jpeg
Click to expand...
If you split the fall along the red line, it would mean having a straight join in your slabs, or else, if you place a 900x600 over the red line (right to left) it will rock as the high point (red line) will be under the centre of the slab.
Also 1 ton MOT covers about 10m2 at 50mm thick

edit. i would also look around local building suppliers, £31m2 seems a little expensive.

as an example https://www.nuyard.co.uk/products/r...ack-22mm-rajgreen21.html?filter_set[]=380,672 £25 m2
 
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j.col said:
If you split the fall along the red line, it would mean having a straight join in your slabs, or else, if you place a 900x600 over the red line (right to left) it will rock as the high point (red line) will be under the centre of the slab.
Also 1 ton MOT covers about 10m2 at 50mm thick

edit. i would also look around local building suppliers, £31m2 seems a little expensive.

as an example https://www.nuyard.co.uk/products/r...ack-22mm-rajgreen21.html?filter_set[]=380,672 £25 m2
Click to expand...
I figure in a "random" pattern I can have a mix of falls along the red line as long as its going one way or the other. I won't actually have a visible line along that length.

Thanks for price info I have seen others and tbh im happy to pay a little more in the hope it's good quality (it costs more as its tumbled and riven)
 
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Buffman said:
I figure in a "random" pattern I can have a mix of falls along the red line as long as its going one way or the other. I won't actually have a visible line along that length.

Thanks for price info I have seen others and tbh im happy to pay a little more in the hope it's good quality (it costs more as its tumbled and riven)
Click to expand...
What I was trying to say is that along the red line, you will have a fall going to the left and right, this creates a little hump, then when you put a large slab over it, it can rock.
It can be done, just want you to be aware of it.
You will find most of the slabs, come from the same quarry, but just re-labeled over here.
 
j.col said:
What I was trying to say is that along the red line, you will have a fall going to the left and right, this creates a little hump, then when you put a large slab over it, it can rock.
It can be done, just want you to be aware of it.
You will find most of the slabs, come from the same quarry, but just re-labeled over here.
Click to expand...
Surely if you fill up the bottom with mortar there is nowhere for it to "rock" just that it can only fall one way or the other is the issue and potential issue of lippage
 
Buffman said:
Surely if you fill up the bottom with mortar there is nowhere for it to "rock" just that it can only fall one way or the other is the issue and potential issue of lippage
Click to expand...
Yep should be on a solid bed so there is nothing to rock. Lippage should be very minimal as the gradient of the slope is small.
 
Think I'll go this stone instead as looks nicer

www.londonstone.co.uk

Tumbled Mint Sandstone Paving

Tumbled Mint Sandstone Paving, with its lovely variety of beige and pastel tones, looks beautifully aged after tumbling. This tumbled sandstone paving works well in traditional landscape designs, where its hand-cut edges, softened riven texture and occasional darker veining create a feel of...
www.londonstone.co.uk www.londonstone.co.uk
 
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