Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

Akagi · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:10

I'd love it if koolpc turned out to be a gay atheist and this was all a massive trolling effort.

Nevakonaza · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:16

D.P. said:
and the alw doesn't prevent them .

Law shouldn't suppress peoples opinions,Freedom of speech and all that

People are just way too sensitive.

dalehitchy1 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:18

Nevakonaza said:
Law shouldn't suppress peoples opinions,Freedom of speech and all that

People are just way too sensitive.

And yet if a muslim bakery didn't want to print a 'equality for women' cake.... I bet I'd be hearing about it all year and ironically.... It'd be from the same people supporting this christian bakery because 'its their right'

vincent1989 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:19

cheesyboy said:
That link reckons Jesus saw "born Eunuchs" (a term used at the time for effeminate gays) as a gift from God.

Would be interested in a counter argument to it from someone who understands the OT. I'm clueless on the whole thing

The link does mention born eunuchs but I think that's a stretch to go from a man who can't have sex because his genitals are non functional/existent or celibate by choice to God makes people gay. I would contend that the bible is very specific in the instances that it mentions homosexuality, if Jesus were specifically talking about homosexuals I think he would have used language similar to that which he or his servants use elsewhere. Especially as the passage it talks about is considering the act of a marriage, divorce and fornication between specifically man and woman.

I find it much more likely he is using it in that context to describe abstinence and that he is referring to men who have no desire to fornicate with women and so therefore do not fornicate. Not men who have no desire to fornicate with women and therefore make merry with their own sex.

Orionaut · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:28

dalehitchy1 said:
And yet if a Muslim bakery didn't want to print a 'equality for women' cake.... I bet I'd be hearing about it all year and ironically.... It'd be from the same people supporting this Christian bakery because 'its their right'

On the contrary, I suspect that should that situation arise, the people who are currently criticising the "Christian Bakers" for their bigotry and narrow mindedness would be flying to the defence of the "Muslim Bakers" on the grounds that going into a "Muslim Bakers" and making such a request in order to make a point was "Offensive" and "Wilfully provocative" and that the people doing so should face prosecution.

(Which BTW, it is, though I wouldn't go as far as to prosecute somebody for doing so. By the same token, I wouldnt support the Muslim Bakers being prosecuted for refusing either)

Edward78 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:29

Mynight said:
Hang on if a certain religion is allowed to not serve pork or alcahol products(I think that happened)then why shouldn't this other religion be allowed to do as they wish?

I'm not a homophobe for the record just fed up of the minority intruding on the majorities ways.

Well they could have a sign saying that they don't promote political views, it is not unheard of to have something state what your business doesn't allow... Plus was it really they didn't want to promote that, because it was a political view or it promoted accepting gays? BTW, I don't think Jesus taught hate, so all these people that hate others have no right to call themselves Christian...

dalehitchy1 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:39

Orionaut said:
On the contrary, I suspect that should that situation arise, the people who are currently criticising the "Christian Bakers" for their bigotry and narrow mindedness would be flying to the defence of the "Muslim Bakers" on the grounds that going into a "Muslim Bakers" and making such a request in order to make a point was "Offensive" and "Wilfully provocative" and that the people doing so should face prosecution.

(Which BTW, it is, though I wouldn't go as far as to prosecute somebody for doing so. By the same token, I wouldnt support the Muslim Bakers being prosecuted for refusing either)

I very much highly doubt that. Even so... May I ask your opinion on this.

Do you support the Christian bakery
Would you support a muslim bakery refusing a 'equality for woman cake?

Tosno · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:39

D.P. said:
The bakers are free to have their own beliefs, so the bakers are perfectly entitled to be homophobic bigots if they want to be, and the alw doesn't prevent them .

Oh those bigots... being intolerant towards those holding different opinions and all.

ICDP · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:40

Nevakonaza said:
To be honest,I dont see what the deal is.

Its up to the baker who he wants to sell too,Its not as if its the only bakers in the world,Just go else where.

There will always be Homophobia in the world,Same with racists..nothing will ever change so why cry over it..just move on!

Should African American's have adopted the same attitude during the segregation era in the USA?

Should women have adopted the same attitude during the suffragette movement?

Should Catholics not have fought for one man one vote during the beginning of the civil rights era in Northern Ireland?

History has taught us repeatedly that change and acceptance of rights, does not happen if the subjugated remain silent and accept their "place in society".

RDM · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:46

Woden said:
How do you know? What did Jesus, say about it specifically?

koolpc said:
Look at the OT

Erm, have you read the Bible? Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

vincent1989 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:47

Edward78 said:
BTW, I don't think Jesus taught hate, so all these people that hate others have no right to call themselves Christian...

No one is hating anyone. I don't hate homosexuals but the bible is clear that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin. In the New Testament it clearly states also that you can be so wicked, referring to those who have given themselves up to the kind of acts such as men sleeping with men as they would with women, that you are called a foul reprobate and God gives you up.

You can disagree with the bible and say it's not true, I'm fine with that, but you can't read the bible and think God is all right with homosexuality, it's incongruous.

Woden · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:48

RDM said:
Erm, have you read the Bible? Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

Yup, well not all of it, but a good chunk.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. So you kinda have to listen to what he had to say.

dalehitchy1 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:49

vincent1989 said:
No one is hating anyone. I don't hate homosexuals but the bible is clear that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin. In the New Testament it clearly states also that you can be so wicked, referring to those who have given themselves up to the kind of acts such as men sleeping with men as they would with women, that you are called a foul reprobate and God gives you up.

You can disagree with the bible and say it's not true, I'm fine with that, but you can't read the bible and think God is all right with homosexuality, it's incongruous.

"Man should not lie with a man as he would a woman"

Guess that rule doesn't apply to me as I would never sleep with a woman and never have

Tosno · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:50

RDM said:
Erm, have you read the Bible? Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

Jesus is God

ICDP · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:51

Nevakonaza said:
Law shouldn't suppress peoples opinions,Freedom of speech and all that

People are just way too sensitive.

The law did NOT suppress the option of the bakers, they are still homophobic bakers and their right to that opinion has never been the issue. They were prosecuted because the law states their opinion should not be physically manifested in a clear and discriminatory way against others.

The "some of my best friends/relatives are gay" defence does excuse not people being clearly uneducated as to what discrimination means. It is NOT discrimination to have an opinion that a religious person is an idiot, it is discrimination if I refuse that religious person services I would happily provide to non-religious.

vincent1989 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:51

RDM said:
Erm, have you read the Bible? Jesus isn't in the Old Testament.

Erm, have you read the bible? Jesus specified numerous times that he and his father are the same in mind. They think the same. Therefore if God thinks being homosexual is a sin in the OT then Jesus still thinks it's a sin in the NT unless he specifically says otherwise. Please not though jesus does do away with the law of moses the commandment not to be homosexual is not covered by the law of moses and also is mentioned in the NT a number of times as being a sin. We should not sin. Neither God nor Jesus are fine with sin.

RDM · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:51

vincent1989 said:
No one is hating anyone. I don't hate homosexuals but the bible is clear that engaging in homosexual acts is a sin. In the New Testament it clearly states also that you can be so wicked, referring to those who have given themselves up to the kind of acts such as men sleeping with men as they would with women, that you are called a foul reprobate and God gives you up.

You can disagree with the bible and say it's not true, I'm fine with that, but you can't read the bible and think God is all right with homosexuality, it's incongruous.

And you're ok with that? I would really struggle with a faith that mandates homosexuality as something so foul that god gives you up. Especially as homosexuality causes no harm and appears to be something that people have no choice in.

Why would God make so many homosexuals if he has such a big problem with them?

RDM · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:54

vincent1989 said:
Erm, have you read the bible? Jesus specified numerous times that he and his father are the same in mind. They think the same. Therefore if God thinks being homosexual is a sin in the OT then Jesus still thinks it's a sin in the NT unless he specifically says otherwise. Please not though jesus does do away with the law of moses the commandment not to be homosexual is not covered by the law of moses and also is mentioned in the NT a number of times as being a sin. We should not sin. Neither God nor Jesus are fine with sin.

Yes, several different versions in fact. But the question was "What did Jesus say about homosexuality". He said nothing about it. He certainly didn't say anything in the Old Testament about it.

Pudney · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:58

vincent1989 said:
Erm, have you read the bible? Jesus specified numerous times that he and his father are the same in mind. They think the same. Therefore if God thinks being homosexual is a sin in the OT then Jesus still thinks it's a sin in the NT unless he specifically says otherwise. Please not though jesus does do away with the law of moses the commandment not to be homosexual is not covered by the law of moses and also is mentioned in the NT a number of times as being a sin. We should not sin. Neither God nor Jesus are fine with sin.

Not true at all. The New Testament details the new covenant in place between God and people. The New Testament replaces the rules set out in the Old Testament.

vincent1989 · 25 Oct 2016 at 19:58

RDM said:
And you're ok with that? I would really struggle with a faith that mandates homosexuality as something so foul that god gives you up. Especially as homosexuality causes no harm and appears to be something that people have no choice in.

Why would God make so many homosexuals if he has such a big problem with them?

God's not ok with people who have sex outside of marriage either, why pick homosexuality to make a stand with? There are far more people who commit adultery or have pre marital sex than those that are homosexual.