Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

spoffle said:
To be honest, I don't know why gay people are so interested in wanting to get married, because of the highly religious connotations, and the typical religious persecution that usually comes with it, I would have thought most of them would want to distance themselves from it.
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This is very much a misconception pedalled by the religious, marriage in the UK isn't a religious thing, it is a civil thing. The only religion that is allowed to perform marriages without a civil registrar is the Church of England. Every other religious wedding has to have a civil registrar present or they have to have a separate civil ceremony.

More civil weddings take place in the UK now then religious weddings. Especially since many more places can allow weddings to take place. It is no surprise that most people chose "picturesque church" over "60s registry office" when those were the only two things on offer.
 
spoffle said:
The thing I find funny about people who hate gays so fervently is that they're usually utter raging bumders so far in the closet that they're practically living in Narnia.
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Never found that stereotype true tbh it's usually trotted out by the same type of people who ha e no reason for their argument other than "just because" but who happen to fall in to the pro gay side of the fence.

Oh and women, women love that stereotype no idea why.
 
RDM said:
This is very much a misconception pedalled by the religious, marriage in the UK isn't a religious thing, it is a civil thing. The only religion that is allowed to perform marriages without a civil registrar is the Church of England. Every other religious wedding has to have a civil registrar present or they have to have a separate civil ceremony.

More civil weddings take place in the UK now then religious weddings. Especially since many more places can allow weddings to take place. It is no surprise that most people chose "picturesque church" over "60s registry office" when those were the only two things on offer.
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I know it's not actually a religious thing, that's why I was saying religious connotations, as I have seen gay people who want to get married in a church, an institute that aims to persecute their lifestyle.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
The primary purpose of marriage is to create a stable familial relationship for the upbringing of children. We give marriage a special status to encourage people to create these stable relationships and produce the next generation of workers. Love has no real value to society, I don't care if married couples love each other or not. I care that they create stable relationships, raise their kids well and contribute to society.

Marriage is more of a business proposition, one which is intended to endure the ups and downs of romance. The love stuff is just what gets it going. You've only to read the relationship thread on here to see how fickle love is.

A marriage where children are not produced is essentially pointless. It's great that two people are in love and can spend their lives together, I'd even be willing to recognise that as a civil union for legal reasons. But society has no real stake in that sort of relationship, nevermind giving it a tax break!
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That may describe your marriage, it certainly doesn't describe mine.
 
Tefal said:
Never found that stereotype true tbh it's usually trotted out by the same type of people who ha e no reason for their argument other than "just because" but who happen to fall in to the pro gay side of the fence.

Oh and women, women love that stereotype no idea why.
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It's to do with the fervent anti-gay preachers in the US, where something comes out that suggests they are in the closet. I've seen too many instances where the most hateful of them were seemingly being so hateful due to some sort of feeling of guilt.
 
spoffle said:
I know it's not actually a religious thing, that's why I was saying religious connotations, as I have seen gay people who want to get married in a church, an institute that aims to persecute their lifestyle.
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I think it is important to challenge the myth that it is a religious thing especially in a country where it patently isn't. It is that sort of language that allows religious conservatives to try and force their narrow view of what marriage is on to non religious people.
 
spoffle said:
It's to do with the fervent anti-gay preachers in the US, where something comes out that suggests they are in the closet. I've seen too many instances where the most hateful of them were seemingly being so hateful due to some sort of feeling of guilt.
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I've heard this many times before too. I've had to step in and correct whoever is saying it because I doubt the person being homophobic is a closet homosexual, but instead just an ignorant POS.
 
RDM said:
That may describe your marriage, it certainly doesn't describe mine.
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I'm sure it doesn't describe most marriages. My sister is married but 8 years ago she had emergency surgery to remove cysts from both of her ovaries. She can't have children. In his eyes her marriage is of no value because she can not reproduce. I'd love to get sis and him in a room and have him say that to her face. She'd knock his block off ! :D
 
Would be interested to know if there is any evidence in favour of marriage over two parents living together but not being married.
 
Sliver said:
You more or less said it yourself here, any rational person reading this would conclude you are not pro gay marriage, and therefore you harbour homophobic views on the subject:

I've heard this line of reasoning too many times, and it always comes from anti gay stance people. What the rest of us refer to as, homophobes. ;)
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Of course you do, because you're so desperate to prove something you'll jump on every opportunity. You're like the person that accuses a proud Nationalist of being a racist because the BNP exists.

Show me where I said that I don't like "gay marriage" or if you can substantiate me being homophobic. You can't. You shout homophobia because you've got nothing else. Gays are different to straights. It's a fact. I've never said they are better or worse.

spoffle said:
Is a woman marrying a walrus somehow analogous to a woman marrying another woman? If not, why make the comparison in the first place?
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Thanks for continuing the trend of making stuff out of nothing. I wasn't comparing a walrus to a woman, merely illustrating that I don't give a toss who marries what. You can marry a cup of coffee if you want, but I'm not stating that a gay is a like a cup of coffee.

wndsr said:
You don't even know me, how are you able to determine what I'm able and unable to determine?

You continue waiting for Silver to apologise. You sound highly mature.
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You just don't seem very bright.

And I've never claimed to be highly mature. I would say averagely mature.
 
Sliver said:
I'm sure it doesn't describe most marriages. My sister is married but 8 years ago she had emergency surgery to remove cysts from both of her ovaries. She can't have children. In his eyes her marriage is of no value because she can not reproduce. I'd love to get sis and him in a room and have him say that to her face. She'd knock his block off ! :D
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You misunderstand. I said it has no value to society, obviously it may have value to them personally.

It's very tedious having to state everything twice. If you just read things properly and tried to understand them, I'd have more time to answer the posters who present intelligent points.
 
RDM said:
I think it is important to challenge the myth that it is a religious thing especially in a country where it patently isn't. It is that sort of language that allows religious conservatives to try and force their narrow view of what marriage is on to non religious people.
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Sure, but to be honest, some people will take anything and run with it, it doesn't really matter whether it's true or not, and people who have fundamental beliefs are particularly bad for it. Look at the way a lot of atheists take scientific principles that they don't understand, and run with it to argue and shout down people who have religious views.

So to clarify again, I don't think marriage is founded in religion, but it certainly has very religious connotations.
wndsr said:
I've heard this many times before too. I've had to step in and correct whoever is saying it because I doubt the person being homophobic is a closet homosexual, but instead just an ignorant POS.
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I'm not talking about your average gay hater, I'm talking about the ones that are full of frothing at the mouth hatred, who are activists/campaigners against gays. You say you feel the need to step in based on your doubt. Doubt really isn't good enough reasoning to feel the need to step in.

http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-a...ught-being-gay/joanne?format=SLIDESHOW&page=2
 
Thompson_NCL said:
You misunderstand. I said it has no value to society, obviously it may have value to them personally.

It's very tedious having to state everything twice. If you just read things properly and tried to understand them, I'd have more time to answer the posters who present intelligent points.
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My sister and her husband, despite not be able to have kids of their own, ARE a value to society and I find it offensive that you think they are not. Wind your neck in. My sister is a probation worker helping young offenders rehabilitate and if it wasn't for her husband being there to support her every day, she'd probably not cope. Her marriage gives her the strength to continue in a very difficult job, which HELPS society.
 
RDM said:
How it trivialises marriage?
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One could also reasonably assert that by believing it "trivialises marriage" - it in some way implies that homosexual relationships are inferior or somehow unworthy of the same respect (by examining the meaning of trivialises).

A view which is frankly bigotry.
 
RDM said:
The law in Northern Ireland is different to the law in the rest of the UK, their anti discrimination laws also include political opinion.
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It only means they need to promote equality of opportunity to person of different political opinion (this is covered under the UK legislation as well underther terms Religion or Belief as Belief can be Political Belief. So you cannot discriminate against someone becasue they are a Unionist for example) the support or the opposition to Same Sex Marriage is an argument for or against a legal position, it doesn't constitute a political belief in and of itslef, therefore nor does it mean that they can be forced to associate or support another's opinion on changing a legal act through political means. Same Sex Marriage in itself is not a political opinion, it is a legal concept.

http://www.ecu.ac.uk/publications/files/anti-discrimination-law-in-ni.pdf/at_download/file

RDM said:
Also there is a small, somewhat pedantic but quite important point. Same Sex marriage is not illegal in Northern Ireland, it just isn't legal. If they were illegal then UK Same Sex marriages would not be recognised, they are, they are given the same protection as Northern Ireland civil partnerships.
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Same Sex Marriage is illegal in Northern Ireland, the recognition of Same Sex Marriage in States where it is legal is not, however the recognition only extends as far as ensuring they received the same rights and protections as a Civil Partnership in Northern Ireland, which is legal and you have said this yourself, it is not extending them the same rights as they might receive in the country where they married....pedantic, but a quite important point, being as the disagreement revolves around the legality of conducting and recognising Same Sex Marriage conducted in Northern Ireland and not the rest of the UK and elsewhere.
 
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Frightful Boar said:
Thanks for continuing the trend of making stuff out of nothing. I wasn't comparing a walrus to a woman, merely illustrating that I don't give a toss who marries what. You can marry a cup of coffee if you want, but I'm not stating that a gay is a like a cup of coffee.
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I asked you a question, so that you would qualify your statements. You don't seem to take very well to being questioned, and seem to think someone questioning you is an attack on your views. But I also asked it because what you said has the context of anti-gay activism, in that a lot of them try to equate gay couples being allowed to marry, as people being allowed to marry animals, which I'm sure you can see, looking back was a reasonable assumption considering, hence why I asked you to clarify it.
 
wndsr said:
Excellent link, I laughed. :)
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That's the sort of stuff I'm talking about, people who just go so far out of their way to let errone know just how much they hate gays, are usually up to something themselves.

Look at the latest pedophile scandal, the guy in charge of drafting law (I think it was law, someone correct me if I'm wrong) was recently found to be up to it himself.
 
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