But what difference does that make, they are still ignored and nothing will be done about it. Political parties already know voter turnout for different demographics and where they can get more votes, their internal polling gives them accurate information about policy acceptance across different demographics. A NOTA doesn't tell them anything they don't know and is too granular to be as useful as polling
Ballot Paper - None of the Above (NOTA)
- Thread starter throwaway4372
- Start date
But what difference does that make, they are still ignored and nothing will be done about it. Political parties already know voter turnout for different demographics and where they can get more votes, their internal polling gives them accurate information about policy acceptance across different demographics. A NOTA doesn't tell them anything they don't know and is too granular to be as useful as polling
Soldato
True but it's a tricky one.
Less than half the population currently choose to vote.
Many men fighting in the trenches in WWI only got to vote after the suffragettes fought for some women to get the vote.
Many of us have relatives who fought and died for our democracy over a Nazi way of life in WWII.
Democracy isn't about doing anything you want, it's a responsibility to continually make sure we remain 'free'.
I can understand why compulsory voting with a NOTA option would align with the responsibility we all have to continue fighting for our democracy.
E: Tidy up
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Soldato
But you're talking about the current situation. Not the hypothetical situation where there is a NOTA option.
The difference is that NOTA shows you want your vote to be heard but none of the candidates are suitable, rather than getting lost in the noise of couldn't bothered to get out of bed/don't know how to put a tick in a box/accidentally drew a knob & balls/etc.
It's not about "me" not having a suitable candidate to vote for, look at the bigger picture. The current situation is a prime example - I'm sure there are tens of thousands of conservative voters who don't want to vote for the current shower, but also don't necessarily agree with the policies of any of the other parties - they are stuck having to make the choice between the lesser of 2 evils; vote for a party they don't want, or don't get a vote - should they not get the opportunity to voice their opinion that the status quo is not working?
Soldato
In a democracy, you have the right to vote for who you want to run the country. You also, therefore, have the right not to vote for who you want to run the country. That's democracy.
And what do you expect will change? Your NOTA vote won't influence the outcome of the election and will be ignored by the parties. The effect is identical to not voting at all.
The only place i can see it making sense is if voting was mandatory and you would face a fine for not voting, then a NOTA is reasonable
But political parties already know who does and doesn't vote and what different demographics think of their policies. In your scenario it simply means 1 party will still get voted in and many people wasted their time and effort
Soldato
Do they know why?
No, if 57% of votes were for NOTA, then all party leaders would immediately be removed, and the parties disbanded.
Well, actually, I just made that up - the same as your response. We're talking about hypothetical option here, so what effect it would have would depend completely on how it was implemented.
In what world is saying "I don't agree with any of this" the same as not even bothering to turn up?
It would make no difference in that scenario, as you could just as easily spoil your ballot.
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Don
Political parties may do, but it's never relayed in overall statistics e.g. on election night etc. Would be an easy stat that could be shown to the public, that would show the apparent unhappiness of the electorate
But what do you expect that to achieve? There are already lots of polls about people's happiness with politicians, government, policies etc. and these are sometimes shown in media.
I think the advocates are massively underestimating how many people will bother turning up to vote just to have their vote ignored. Finding out that 3-5% of people bothered to vote NOTA is far less relevant than seeing voter turn out was only 40% for example
Yes, absolutely. Whether they care or do anything is another matter. Tories only care about their rich mates snd sponsors, but they absolutely do know what may help them get votes even to the detriment of the country such as tax cuts and hundreds of millions wasted on sending a few people to Rwanda.
That isn't at all what was proposed though. And if you do propose this, what is the process. Does the country fall into chaos as there is no governing party? How many times will the vote be repeated while the country collapses?
In what world is saying "I don't agree with any of this" the same as not even bothering to turn up?
because in both scenarios it makes no difference to the outcome of the vote. Wether you spoil your ballot, stay at home or vote NOTA your input or lack thereof is ignored.
So then you agree that NOTA is pointless
Don
Transparency
Not on the same scale as an actual election vote though
Depends on what the figure is? I have no idea, but I'd like to think it's more than 3-5%. And the two may go hand in hand, if voter turn out is only 40%, then, some of that might be because people don't want to vote for any of the available candidates.
DP it's not just about you. Other people see the value in it. Letting people have the nota option doesn't take anything away from you. You can still vote, or not vote, if that's how you want to express your will.
p.s. I have you ignored btw
p.s. I have you ignored btw
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It probably would!
I like NOTA
It would show who cares enough to vote but can't vote for anyone. Vs who just doesn't care, ie. Who doesn't turn up.
Itd be NOTA or another non red/blue party for me.
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Does it matter? It's more visibility.
It doesn't hurt anyone wanting to vote or not vote.
Maybe there are a load of people who this would pull in. We simply don't know as it's not an option.
No harm in trying
Maybe, but will there be enough of those 'other people' for the petition to hit 10k (at which point the gov will say 'No'), never mind 100k (at which point the gov will say 'Nooooooo')? I have my doubts.
well separating no votes, no votes and NOTA might have some merit i fail to see what difference it would make?
The problem with elections is they are only reflective of a singular point on time, and are heavily biased by voter turnout and media propaganda in the run up to the election. Actual polling across time when properly aggregate is more consistent and reliable indicator of people's opinions and intents. The scale factor is meaningless statistically (1000 people in a proper balanced poll is mire meaningful than millions of votes in a biased sample)
So then we already know that many people don't want to vote for any of the parties and adding a NOTA changes nothing. How many people do you expect to bother voting knowing their NOTA vote won't impact the election at all?
i have nothing against it but it is just a complete waste of time and won't make any difference.
I would much rather people focused their efforts on getting PR, controlling media influence especially by foreign states, or simply actively participating in politics. Saying you don't like the current parties and doing nothing about except tick a box it is just so low energy
Unless people in the UK abandon the two lead parties PR it's a pipe dream.
I will vote for a non main party.. Because I just can't go along with the "it's a wasted vote" mantra. If everyone always voted for red/blue for fear of the other getting in when they'd rather vote another party... Things will never change.
No idea, one way to find out.
Note that we're talking about people who bother to engage with epetitions (the website doesn't exactly make things easy to discover), which is of course smaller than people who would use the nota option if it were available.