Bathroom ceiling caved in

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Problem is that both bathroom and kitchen are the two most difficult things to do if you do not have the ability to DIY them
And also actually the time to do so.
It easy to take your time with parts of both if you have the ability to work round them, but things like Kitchen plumbing tend to be tricky to do slowly as it tends to be a place you need working water most of the time.

Its easy to put up with significant disruption for a few days but far less easy for a few weeks, at least for most people.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

There are only a few tasks in a ‘normal’ kitchen and bathroom installs that are not easily DIYable. The main challenge is the cumulative impact of all the tasks you need to do in quick succession and as a DIYer, I’m never going to be as fast.

Some types of finish are more difficult to obtain as a DIYer but I’d just avoid them or get someone in to do that specific element.

Im just finishing up our kitchen from DIY kitchens and it looks great, I got electricians and gas people in for those parts I’m not allowed to do.

I’d encourage anyone to have a go, generally you don’t need loads of specialist tools for a lot of finishes either. A router for a kitchen is a must but you can get one and a cutter for under £130 that will do the job.

 

[SimonR]

Its the little things that you learn that make the difference. I trick I learned from our fitter - hanging a lot of cabinets on an aeroblock wall. Dont fix into the wall - fix into the cavity. Get some butterfly toggle fixings, remove the screw and buy some threaded 6mm bar and some nuts. Remove the screw from the butterfly fastening and replace with 6mm rod. You can then drill into the cavity, push in the butterfly and that baby is not going to move. 7 x 1000 wall cabinets up in under 2 hours using this method.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Its the little things that you learn that make the difference. I trick I learned from our fitter - hanging a lot of cabinets on an aeroblock wall. Dont fix into the wall - fix into the cavity. Get some butterfly toggle fixings, remove the screw and buy some threaded 6mm bar and some nuts. Remove the screw from the butterfly fastening and replace with 6mm rod. You can then drill into the cavity, push in the butterfly and that baby is not going to move. 7 x 1000 wall cabinets up in under 2 hours using this method.

There are lots of purpose made products on the market now for that use case. I used Corefix on mine, not exactly cheap (£20 for 24) but super simple and extremely strong and stocked at your local screwfix.

Drill 100mm x 10mm hole, bang in the plug, bang in the metal insert, screw on the metal bracket. Done.

Drilling into thermolite block is like drilling into cheese and you barely need a hammer drill , even on a 10mm fixing.

 

[SimonR]

Guy had been fitting kitchens and showrooms for nearly 40 years. I guess this was a method that he had learned many moons ago before specialist fixings, plus they were available at the screwfix counter.

 

[Jez]

Those methods are overkill in my opinion when securing to aerated blocks. They are the easiest surface to mount to of all if you just drive 6/8*100mm coarse thread (as deep as the blocks) wood screws straight into the blocks, they are extremely strong. No prep or even drilling required. They pull in strongly enough to deform the brackets of any cupboards I’ve ever hung.

 

[200sols]

Those methods are overkill in my opinion when securing to aerated blocks. They are the easiest surface to mount to of all if you just drive 6/8*100mm coarse thread (as deep as the blocks) wood screws straight into the blocks, they are extremely strong. No prep or even drilling required. They pull in strongly enough to deform the brackets of any cupboards I’ve ever hung.

If you do that you Will crush the plasterboard into the cavity, assuming dot n dab wall. Corefix or rigifix solves that.

 

[Jez]

If you do that you Will crush the plasterboard into the cavity, assuming dot n dab wall. Corefix or rigifix solves that.

You don’t need to drive them in to that point, I was just illustrating that the other methods are overkill and time consuming for no reason. You can drive the screws in “just so” to achieve the same result as any other fixing..or at least the same result as that butterfly/threaded rod method In reality you drive them in just enough that it starts to pinch/crush the plasterboard behind the fixing and leave it there.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

There are only a few tasks in a ‘normal’ kitchen and bathroom installs that are not easily DIYable. The main challenge is the cumulative impact of all the tasks you need to do in quick succession and as a DIYer, I’m never going to be as fast.

Some types of finish are more difficult to obtain as a DIYer but I’d just avoid them or get someone in to do that specific element.

Im just finishing up our kitchen from DIY kitchens and it looks great, I got electricians and gas people in for those parts I’m not allowed to do.

I’d encourage anyone to have a go, generally you don’t need loads of specialist tools for a lot of finishes either. A router for a kitchen is a must but you can get one and a cutter for under £130 that will do the job.

I agree and disagree.
Having done 2 kitchen refurbs and on my second bathroom I stand by that compared to the vast majority of DIY they are a cut above.
You have to consider way more in these areas, will stuff fit properly, water proofing, some limitations on elec/gas as you mention etc
Overall I believe the most difficult thing is time as I mentioned.

You like I are obviously "handy" as my operations manager describes it, but plenty are just lol, if your just lol your never ever going to do a kitchen or bathroom refurb.

I mean I know someone who jumped in to help someone else fix an electric wall panel heater that was coming loose from the wall. So basically failed plugs.
He helped them by using screws so long they went through the wall and stuck out the other side (actually very much like the very thread on here where the guy screwed through the garage wall)
Someone like that just is never ever going to be able to do a kitchen or bathroom.
Part of it is knowing your limits, if you are good with your hands and able to watch enough videos/read enough material to understand what you can do then I agree, most things aren't that hard.
I am also willing to buy tools in (plus my other half still works for a tool hire company so for pennies I can when needed get proper professional stuff) many wont and this also makes some things easier.

I dont own no never actually have a router, but then the one thing I didnt do in the kitchen was the worksurface as that was quartz and thats deffo not a diy job.

 

[thenewoc]

Its the little things that you learn that make the difference. I trick I learned from our fitter - hanging a lot of cabinets on an aeroblock wall. Dont fix into the wall - fix into the cavity. Get some butterfly toggle fixings, remove the screw and buy some threaded 6mm bar and some nuts. Remove the screw from the butterfly fastening and replace with 6mm rod. You can then drill into the cavity, push in the butterfly and that baby is not going to move. 7 x 1000 wall cabinets up in under 2 hours using this method.

The problem with that is you don't always end up with a cavity where your mounting points are if someone put dot n dab there. Decent size fixings that go straight into the blockwork would be my preference.

 

[200sols]

Having done 2 kitchen refurbs and on my second bathroom I stand by that compared to the vast majority of DIY they are a cut above.
You have to consider way more in these areas, will stuff fit properly, water proofing, some limitations on elec/gas as you mention etc
Overall I believe the most difficult thing is time as I mentioned.

Yes, it's a lot more involved, its a project that needs planning and forethought, its not just another 'DIY' task. I've done several kitchens and bathrooms now, to get a decent finish takes time and practice. There is a reason these jobs are done by specific trades, few people have the capability to do it all to an acceptable standard. I personally think fitting a kitchen is easier than a bathroom.

 

[MassiveJim]

The problem with that is you don't always end up with a cavity where your mounting points are if someone put dot n dab there. Decent size fixings that go straight into the blockwork would be my preference.

I think he means the wall cavity, not the small "gap" between plasterboard and blockwork.

There is no way I would be hanging kitchen cabinets on fixings that are only secured into platsterboard.

 

[e36Adz]

Sounds like you went through a nightmare, glad it's all sorted now though. It's why I also hate dealing with trades people, the ones that you get recommended and who are actually reliable are busy for months, the ones you find yourself who are able to start sooner - you've no idea what to expect from them.

I had a shower room done recently and I got a mate to do it who I could 100% trust. We gutted the entire room, leak tested every pipe we/he fitted. Came up against all sorts of obstacles along the way but found a suitable workaround that I was happy with. For example, I ended up losing more space than I initially wanted (toilet had a frame that goes inside the wall) but then we made 2 larger niches than planned for storage to compensate etc. It was the first time I've seen a shower room get done from an empty shell and I cannot believe how easy it is - if I had the tools I'd be confident enough to do the whole thing myself in future.

Edit: Some excellent advice was offered on these forums along the way which helped.

 

[LeeUK]

Sounds like you went through a nightmare, glad it's all sorted now though. It's why I also hate dealing with trades people, the ones that you get recommended and who are actually reliable are busy for months, the ones you find yourself who are able to start sooner - you've no idea what to expect from them.

I had a shower room done recently and I got a mate to do it who I could 100% trust. We gutted the entire room, leak tested every pipe we/he fitted. Came up against all sorts of obstacles along the way but found a suitable workaround that I was happy with. For example, I ended up losing more space than I initially wanted (toilet had a frame that goes inside the wall) but then we made 2 larger niches than planned for storage to compensate etc. It was the first time I've seen a shower room get done from an empty shell and I cannot believe how easy it is - if I had the tools I'd be confident enough to do the whole thing myself in future.

Edit: Some excellent advice was offered on these forums along the way which helped.

While I could give anything a go with the help of research, YouTube, and time, I just don't have the £1000s worth of tools and equipment these trades have.

Even though my fitters turned out to be a bit bodge, it still took from the initial contact with them in June until October to finally get it done. Just can't trust any these days.

 

[LeeUK]

Something I've been thinking about regarding the extractor fan. The old one had a transformer box on the wall outside the bathroom to convert the power from 24v to 12v. I understood this was a safety measure as it was above a bath. The new extractor fan the fitters installed does not have any transformer box to convert the power. Should it?

This is the fan they installed (I think as looks the same) although I don't know where they purchased it from or what they paid as the price seem to vary a lot...

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Airflow-iCON-ECO-15-Extractor/dp/B005FPD49E/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2FDHZVS81H9TJ&dchild=1&keywords=icon+extractor+fan+bathroom&qid=1635019786&sprefix=icon+ex,aps,206&sr=8-5&th=1

 

[thenewoc]

I think he means the wall cavity, not the small "gap" between plasterboard and blockwork.

There is no way I would be hanging kitchen cabinets on fixings that are only secured into platsterboard.

Oh heck the wall cavity seems excessive, more likely the carcase would give way in that case. Your not ment to be able to do chin ups on your wall cabinets.

Fixings into a solid wall is the way to go in my opinion. I have used metal anchor fixings on a few cupboards that wrapped around onto a stud partition before and they held up just fine. In hind sight it probably would have been better to put horizontal battening across the vertical stud work but I don't think the kitchen size would accommodate the cupboards being further stepped off from the wall.

 

[200sols]

Should it?

No.