Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

We now have our first official picture of Jason Momoa as Aquaman!!

aquamanjasonmomoa.jpg


http://www.superherohype.com/news/330833-zack-snyder-reveals-jason-momoa-as-aquaman#/slide/1
 
First trailer is being shown in selected IMAX cinemas in America on Monday April 20th! Expect it online sometime after! (Possibly around midnight/1am).

Here's a 20-sec teaser:


It's also been touted that the trailer will be shown before Avengers Age Of Ultron next week! :D
 
Saw the leaked trailer earlier this morning. I love the fact it's so dark and making everyone be wary about Superman. And Jesse's voice over is certainly intimidating. But that quote from Batman: "Do you bleed? You will!"

Bring it on! I want the HD version already!!!
 
cu3ed said:
These are the same reviewers that spunked all over Age Of Ultron, which was one of the most horrific films made, yet they all just thought it was great.
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I went on a bit of a Twitter rant earlier about this exact thing! This is why I don't and won't ever trust critic reviews. The reviews you want to trust are either your best friend or members of the general public.

When I saw Man Of Steel, on every single showing I went to, pretty much everyone praised it as the best Superman movie they've seen. Because it didn't make him boring or perfect. It made him interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I will go and see Civil War when it comes out. But I just know that the same reviewers will fap like mad over that movie even though it is also about heroes fighting heroes. But sure, give Marvel all the praise and WB/DC all the abuse. Cos that is not unfair in the slightest.
 
About to get ready for viewing number 2 of 7. I really enjoyed it! It had everything I wanted and more!

I certainly was not expecting to see the rest of the Justice League in that capacity! But it does beg the question, how long has Lex been studying these "metahumans"? Was it since Superman revealed himself to the world?

I also loved how "Kryptonite" was formed. Instead of debris from Krypton. And the very end with Superman's coffin.
 
Egon said:
I've not read the comics, comics have never been my thing, they seem to lack substance. So as a non-comic reader, which I would guess makes up a large percentage of the viewers... what the **** is batman doing fighting superman? The whole idea just seems ridiculous.

Perhaps someone could explain briefly how it came about, a little background would definitely help here.
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As you said, you've not read the comics. So, I will give you a brief run-down:

In Man Of Steel (which I imagined you watched), Metropolis was pretty much destroyed after the battle between Zod and Superman (not to mention that Zod caused more destruction using the world engine).

At this time, Bruce Wayne came to Metropolis as his building (Wayne Financial) was in the middle of said battle and was destroyed. Seeing that Superman and Zod were the cause, decides to embark on a one man crusade to rid the world of Superman. As he see him as a threat.

Enter, Lex Luthor and Kryptonite. Bruce Wayne steals the Kryptonite from Lex to use against Superman. However, here's the twist: Lex knows that Superman and Clark Kent are the same person and he uses Martha Kent as insurance against Superman. Basically fight Batman to the death or your mother dies.

Instead Superman tries to reason with Batman to get him to help stop Lex from killing Martha Kent. Batman is not willing to listen and that's why they fight.

The movie is influenced by The Dark Knight Returns (by Alan Moore back in 1985), but also by The Death Of Superman (DC Comics' biggest selling graphics novel of all time), hence Superman dying at the end of the fight with Doomsday (the only creature to have killed Superman in the comics way back in 1992).
 
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Kyo said:
CK61938 - dude, posting a synopsis of the entire movie, even in a spoiler tag. You are giving the whole thing away. not cool.
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The guy asked for the reason they were fighting. I don't see what the problem is. And I am guessing you have seen the movie? So, again, I don't see what the problem is. That's why it's in a spoiler tag.
 
Kyo said:
It the usual from touching the conflict. you go OTT just to show everyone how much you like superman without any consideration of others that havent watched the movie. What is the point of going to see it when you just given the entire plot away.
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Amazing to see you have treated others like this. I have read people spoiling the movie over and over, yet I am the one being picked on here. Yes, I am a big Superman fan, but that's not the reason I gave "plot away" as you have mentioned. If anyone had asked that question and they saw the movie, I am sure it was pretty obvious that the information I gave is exactly what people saw. So, once again, I still fail to see what the problem is. As such, you're the only one who has pointed this out.

I was merely outlining what Egon didn't understand as to why they were fighting in the first place. He clearly was bemused as to why these two iconic heroes were going toe-to-toe. As I imagine many non-comic book readers probably thought when they saw it too. Nothing was spoiled that people have not already seen. And if someone did look at the spoiler tag, that's their problem. Not mine. I was answering a question. Simple as that.
 
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Marsman said:
Nothing wrong with giving away the plot if it's an a spoiler tag. That's what it's there for. If someone clicks to reveal a spoiler tag for a film they haven't seen, that's their choice. They know what it does, and there's a damn good chance they will learn vital details about the plot. If they do it anyway, I'd like to know why; unless of course, they don't actually care about the film in question and aren't that bothered about seeing it.

Saying someone is being inconsiderate of giving away the entire plot of a film that's in spoiler tags, is just silly. If someone does that without using spoiler tags, then that's different.
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+1 Thank you!
 
lucarocks92 said:
My brother seen it for the second time and pointed out something very interesting to me about the movie and a sequel.

It's building up to Justice League Flashpoint Paradox

First off Jeffrey Dean Morgan plays Thomas Wayne, why is there such a big actor for such a small role? He had a massive role in Watchmen under Snyder and directors always have their go to guys. We see the story of Bruce Wayne's parents again when everyone knows the back story by now.

Thomas Wayne is normally just a normal guy but in this version he is a big physical presence and we see him clench his fist and go for the bad guy.
It's a version of Thomas Wayne that we normally don't see.

In Flashpoint Paradox Bruce Wayne dies when his family is confronted by the guy that robs their family and Thomas Wayne ends up being Batman.

We know there is time travel because we seen the Flash come back and warn Batman and tell him "Lois is the key"

My brother thinks that The Flash will go back in time to save Lois and alter the universe while doing it thus creating Flashpoint Paradox.

Anyone agree?
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Interesting.

But you also have to see that they could down the route of Injustice. Where Lois is killed by The Joker and Superman kills him in retaliation much to the behest of Batman! Hence the knightmare scene! It could work either way.
 
Jonny2284 said:
Now I'll also admit between the powers that be at DC jettisoning every character I grew up with and their (literal) lifetime of development to pretend it's the silverage again by bringing back who they grew up with and the Nu-52 stuff I don't read much DC these days so outside of the obvious Dark Knight Returns influence on Batman and what appears to be a tease for Injustice where can I find the rest of this stuff that makes it true to the source. Particualrly looking for the stories of:
Batman gunning people down with the Batmobile: In Batman's very first outing, he was killing people. Way back in 1939. Using a gun
Lex Luthor engineering Doomsday (I suppose it's semi-adapted from the idea of Cadmus doing it in the JLA cartoon but nothing else lines up in even the broadest strokes): In the Superman/Doomsday animated movie from 2007, while he didn't directly create the monster. He was involved in the discovery of him.
Lex Luthor being evil Mark Zuckerberg instead of the cold calculating businessman: Superman Secret Origin. Young Lex is portrayed in this manner to some degree. He even has his father killed. But later on he becomes the cold calculating businessman
Jimmy Olson being a CIA agent who is unceremoniously killed: No idea about this one. Tho, this is a different universe, so maybe we have a Jimmy Olsen elswhere. Oh wait, we do on the Supergirl show. Tho he goes by the name of James Olsen
Batman branding people: More of a psychological thing regarding Batman than taken from a source material
Batman and Superman's usual Hope vs Fear debate is instead told as Fear vs Fear: I didn't see any of that in the movie. At least from Superman's side. Unless you're referring to him being seen as a god to Batman?
Superman sits brooding during a disaster instead of helping people: When did this happen exactly? If you're referring to the Capitol getting blown up, he did state to Lois later on that he was not even looking for the bomb. There also examples like this in the comics. Especially the New 52.

But then those are largely issues of characterisation and the centrepoint of Dawn of Justice's problem seems to be that instead of asking "How do we write the plot to get from A to B with these characters" they warped the characters to fit instead.
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I have added bits to your spoiler. :)
 
Jonny2284 said:
I see precisely one answer that's from the current continuity (and if true makes me weep that the deconstruction of Superman as a symbol of hope is actually DC mandated before Synder got there, we have enough expys in both DC and Marvel to explore the concept with without having to change the original). I'd also point out that at no point in Secret Origin did Lex Jr act like the Riddler like Eisenberg did, but since 9 months after it's publication DC said "screw it, this doesn't count we're gonna tell it again" it's moot anyway

Which isn't a problem for me, as per my last post I'm all for pulling together from various sources to make something new, but when you're having to go back 75 years, and 4 full reboots of a character ago to get a source for something can you really claim DC is "staying true to the source material"?
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Can you say the same for Marvel? It all depends on what part of the material they borrow from. Whether it's Golden, Silver, Bronze or Modern Age. I don't think it really matters. What matters is that they are using stuff that has been depicted in the comics (regardless of the time period) and making their own spin on it.

Look at movies like Snow White And The Huntsman, Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters and Maleficent. World famous fable stories and these movies have essentially given them a new and dynamic twist. Not everyone liked them, but I found them to be interesting to see them take these stories in a different direction than what we are used to.
 
Jono8 said:
Reading some of the reviews and comments on this make me despair:

I cant believe it got criticised for the lengthy opening Thomas and Martha Wayne scene and then more so for Batman's change of heart as he was about to kill Superman.

The whole thing was wonderfully done and very emotional in my opinion. The film needed that beginning to amplify the emotional impact of the middle scene.

Batman had spent the whole time dehumanising Superman to justify the idea that he was an enemy to humanity and should be killed but in that moment, Superman's humanity becomes hugely apparent.

Batman has been haunted by his parent's death his whole life so it is no wonder that Superman saying "save Martha" would make him take a step back and question what Superman means by it. This time in the flashback, Batman no doubt recognises that it is him who is the criminal and he had fallen too far.

The whole sentiment of the film was about how hard it is to remain being a good person in a world full of evil. It goes back to that quote from Two Face in the previous films: "You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.". Batman saw he was becoming the villain in that moment.

This comment I saw for example

"I can tell you that if I was in the midst of trying to kill someone and I found out that their mother had the same name as mine that it would not make me decide against killing them."

:confused: Stupid people are gonna stupid. Some people think he just changed his mind because their mothers had the same name, completely missing the point.

Poor Zack, he tried but I guess some people have hearts of stone and brains of cheese.
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+1

You could not have put it any better! Well said!
 
No1newts said:
Well according to he film Bats/Superman/WW/Flash (who looks terribly cast) Aquaman/Cyborg.

If I remember correctly that is all that was shown so leaves room for one more Lantern/MM are probably the most obvious guesses though they could go full on new 52 and have

Lex

Which thinking through bvs it could kind of make sense a little.
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The seven members are borrowed from New 52, but it won't be Lex. They are:

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
The Flash
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Cyborg

We won't see GL until the 2nd JL movie. Still got no idea who it will be tho. Could be Hal Jordan, could be John Stewart, could even be Kyle Rayner.
 
FutileBreadMachine said:
Saw this on Tuesday. Was better than I thought it would be, based on what I read on the web.
My qualms were:
The Batman scenes were the best, I would have preferred a full on Snyder Batman movie. I'm glad this Batman kills people, I was sick of the whole not killing thing after watching Daredevil.

Batman will no longer be killing people. After the battle with Doomsday, he saw things differently. So come Suicide Squad and Justice League, Batman will not be killing anyone.

The bizarre future scene while Batman was sleeping was totally out of place. Firstly how can he see the future, secondly he wakes up and some guy is screaming at him about Superman through some future portal, and then he wakes up again from that. It was just too weird.

It was a dream. To an extent. But the guy that shows up telling him about Superman is The Flash. That was not a dream sequence. That was The Flash travelling back from the future to warn Bruce about what could happen if Lois was killed. Hence the dream he saw of the future with Metropolis as a desolate wasteland.

Everything with Lex Luthor was terrible - the acting, dialogue, actions, just everything.

I guess Jesse Eisenberg wasn't for everyone. But you can't please everyone.

I didn't get the whole plot to frame Superman in Africa - those guys were all shot, so how could they pin that on Superman? And who was the African woman at that hearing talking about her parents being killed? It wasn't a village, it was a small compound with just a bunch of terrorists in it. And what was the point of the "special ammo" they were using? Why did they need special bullets? The only purpose I saw was so that Lois could connect it to Lex, but what was the point of that? She gave it to the military guy but it didn't result in anything. Unless that's why he went to jail? I thought I would have gone to jail for making Doomsday...

The whole point of framing Superman was because Lex wanted the world (and Batman) to see that Superman was not this saviour he was made out to be. He put the fear in everyone and wanted Superman to be seen as a devil more than an angel. That's why he used those guys to kill people in the desert and used specially made bullets so they were not easily traced. Hence it took Lois a while to get the answers about the bullets. And the final straw for Bruce was when he saw the Capitol blown up. Even tho Superman was there, he couldn't anything to stop it because he was not looking for a bomb. He was there to answer for the incidents that occurred in Metropolis from his fight with Zod and also the incident in Africa.

Why did they nuke Superman and Doomsday instead of just letting Superman punch him into Space?

Cos how far into space can Superman take Doomsday? He'll only just come back. Nuking them was their only option. But it still had no effect on Doomsday. If he wanted, Superman could have taken Doomsday further into space and dealt with him all on his own. But since the nuke was heading towards them, he didn't have that option.

Why did Superman stop Doomsday from killing Lex? He killed that guy holding Lois hostage in Africa buy smashing him through a wall, so why save the guy who threw Lois off a building and kidnapped his mother?

He didn't kill that guy in Africa. If you watch the scene with Lois and Clark in their apartment, he tells Lois he didn't kill anyone. And he didn't kill anyone. Not since Zod has he killed again. He already told Lex he was going to take him into prison without breaking him. And that's more than he deserved. Even after he threw Lois off the building and was responsible for killing everyone in the Capitol.

I was disappointed that they made Batman and Superman fight because Martha was being held hostage. I was hoping it would be like in The Dark Knight Returns where it's a clash of ideologies. I thought Superman was going to fight him because he was killing people, but it was way too easy for him to just say his mum was being held hostage and the fight would be over.

It was like TDKR. The fight was not just about Martha (from Superman's perspective). But from Batman's perspective, he saw Superman as a threat and an enemy of humanity. Because Lex (indirectly) made Batman paranoid about Superman and his ideals. It was only when he was about to kill Superman and he tells him about Martha, that Batman realises Superman is not this evil alien who could wipe out the entire planet. But is, in fact, an alien who grew up on Earth with parents and morals. The name Martha resonated with Batman because all his life, since his parents were killed, he's been living in a world where he doesn't see good guys anymore. Especially since he also lost Robin (likely to be Jason Todd). Superman mentioning Martha gave Batman a second chance to redeem himself. Given that he has been killing bad guys as well.
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I have added my statements to yours.
 
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