Baxter Mixes Live Bird Flu Virus with Seasonal Flu And Ships it to other Labs

[Teki187]

Who cares they are close to a cure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4747909.stm

That will NEVER be released.

Imagine the revenue lost to drug companies through the loss of sales of flu medication like Lemsip and so on.

Until we get a new style of social thinking where wealth is not a discerning factor, we will not see many major cures for things like this, far to much money to be made.

 

[masterluke]

That will NEVER be released.

Imagine the revenue lost to drug companies through the loss of sales of flu medication like Lemsip and so on.

Until we get a new style of social thinking where wealth is not a discerning factor, we will not see many major cures for things like this, far to much money to be made.

You are aware that if a company could create a working "cure all" flu vaccine, that if would be patented and the company would make a massive amount of cash.. id say there is too much money to be made NOT to attempt making new drugs like this.

 

[Teki187]

You are aware that if a company could create a working "cure all" flu vaccine, that if would be patented and the company would make a massive amount of cash.. id say there is too much money to be made NOT to attempt making new drugs like this.

That logic is flawed.

If every person in the UK was given this jab, being as its a 1 time only "fee" (via the NHS) then what would the drug companies do when people stop buying anti flu tablets? There are currently 60,975,000 people in the UK (Link) and lets say £4.50 per beechams flu tablets, £274,387,500 per overall. How many do you buy at a time? 2? Flu lasts what 2 weeks, you get 8 tablets, so you end up buying 2-5 packets. That is a lot of sustained revenue to loose for a 1 lump burst sum.

 

[masterluke]

That logic is flawed.

If every person in the UK was given this jab, being as its a 1 time only "fee" (via the NHS) then what would the drug companies do when people stop buying anti flu tablets? There are currently 60,975,000 people in the UK (Link) and lets say £4.50 per beechams flu tablets, £274,387,500 per overall. How many do you buy at a time? 2? Flu lasts what 2 weeks, you get 8 tablets, so you end up buying 2-5 packets. That is a lot of sustained revenue to loose for a 1 lump burst sum.

.. so I am to assume that you believe that all the drug companies are the same thing and that the same company makes all of these products you are listing?

drug production is in fact massively competitive

 

[ChroniC]

That logic is flawed.

If every person in the UK was given this jab, being as its a 1 time only "fee" (via the NHS) then what would the drug companies do when people stop buying anti flu tablets? There are currently 60,975,000 people in the UK (Link) and lets say £4.50 per beechams flu tablets, £274,387,500 per overall. How many do you buy at a time? 2? Flu lasts what 2 weeks, you get 8 tablets, so you end up buying 2-5 packets. That is a lot of sustained revenue to loose for a 1 lump burst sum.

 

[Jokester]

That logic is flawed.

It's not flawed. Otherwise vaccines just wouldn't exist.

 

[Keltik THC]

If it contained live avian flu and human flu for human use I might agree with you.

But it wasn't.

huh? did, i just post the link to the story that said a company shipped out a Seasonal flu vaccine with both the live H5n1 (live bird flu) and Hn32 (highly virulent strain of human influenza) to 18 countries?? or was i imagining things???... even if i post sources people are denying what im saying

Thread title edited for clarity, as it was not a vaccine.

WHAT>!?! jesus christ man, the story is even getting censored by Overclockers what a joke!!!!

no, ok, no, no vaccine was ever contaminated... nothing to see here move along please.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ba...s=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

what a joke the mods make this forum sometimes.

 

[Teki187]

.. so I am to assume that you believe that all the drug companies are the same thing and that the same company makes all of these products you are listing?

drug production is in fact massively competitive

No i never said they were all the same, but regardless, the huge amounts of income from things like flu tablets is too much to loose for a 1 of payment.

Example, BT charge you a monthly fee, do you think they'd be able to keep there business alive if everyone just payed a 1 off flat rate fee?

Thanks for your valid contribution to the discussion, but then again, what do you expect from GD...

It's not flawed. Otherwise vaccines just wouldn't exist.

True.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

.. so I am to assume that you believe that all the drug companies are the same thing and that the same company makes all of these products you are listing?

drug production is in fact massively competitive

The problem here is that the facts are not important to the OP. Drug production and sale within both private and public sector is a competitive arena that is matched rarely elsewhere.

But it still doesn't matter as it's not convenient to fit this into the "Drug Companies" collaborative model which the OP and Teki seem to believe exists.

On a side note, it would be far better for patients if this were the case but it is not.

 

[Jokester]

WHAT>!?! jesus christ man, the story is even getting censored by Overclockers what a joke!!!!

no, ok, no, no vaccine was ever contaminated... nothing to see here move along please.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ba...s=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

what a joke the mods make this forum sometimes.

None of those links are from reputable sources. The google story you have posted originally makes no mention of this being a vaccine and it is from a reputable news source.

 

[Keltik THC]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bax...ient=firefox-a

again, just to officialy request if the over zealous mod, the grand-pubah of all information on here, could you be as so kind as to return the thread to its original form instead of editing my posts and deliberitly misleading everyone?

i find it quite irresponsible of which ever mod did this, not a gentlemanly thing to do.

just google something before you start to censor it, i know you have the power to change whatever post you want but at least have the moral standard to use that power with dignity and respect instead of being so lazy and irresponsible, maybe just google "Baxter ships vaccine with baxter ships vaccine with H5n1" its not hard.

 

[Keltik THC]

None of those links are from reputable sources. The google story you have posted originally makes no mention of this being a vaccine and it is from a reputable news source.

ahh, so now you are the grand-pubah of reputable sources? well kind sir would you be as so kind to show me your official white-list of approved information websites? or perhaps, more interestingly what your list of black-listed information websites are? im interested to ensure all 3,300 hits are on your blacklist before you decided to become an information censor.


has the orwellien media controls extended to Overclockers aswell?? sad day when even Computer enthusthiast forums are getting censored!

EDIT: http://www.naturalnews.com/025760.html ??? clear enough?

Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries. The "mistake" (if you can call it that, see below...) was discovered by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Canada. The World Health Organization was alerted and panic spread throughout the vaccine community as health experts asked the obvious question: How could this have happened?

As published on LifeGen.de (http://www.lifegen.de/newsip/showne...), serious questions like this are being raised:

"Baxter International Inc. in Austria 'unintentionally contaminated samples with the bird flu virus that were used in laboratories in 3 neighbouring countries, raising concern about the potential spread of the deadly disease'. Austria, Germany, Slowenia and the Czech Republic - these are the countries in which labs were hit with dangerous viruses. Not by bioterrorist commandos, but by Baxter. In other words: One of the major global pharmaceutical players seems to have lost control over a virus which is considered by many virologists to be one of the components leading some day to a new pandemic."

Or, put another way, Baxter is acting a whole lot like a biological terrorism organization these days, sending deadly viral samples around the world. If you mail an envelope full of anthrax to your Senator, you get arrested as a terrorist. So why is Baxter -- which mailed samples of a far more deadly viral strain to labs around the world -- getting away with saying, essentially, "Oops?"

But there's a bigger question in all this: How could this company have accidentally mixed LIVE avian flu viruses (both H5N1 and H3N2, the human form) in this vaccine material?

Was the viral contamination intentional?
The shocking answer is that this couldn't have been an accident. Why? Because Baxter International adheres to something called BSL3 (Biosafety Level 3) - a set of laboratory safety protocols that prevent the cross-contamination of materials.

As explained on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosaf...):

"Laboratory personnel have specific training in handling pathogenic and potentially lethal agents, and are supervised by competent scientists who are experienced in working with these agents. This is considered a neutral or warm zone. All procedures involving the manipulation of infectious materials are conducted within biological safety cabinets or other physical containment devices, or by personnel wearing appropriate personal protective clothing and equipment. The laboratory has special engineering and design features."

nope, nothing to do with vaccines, just a vaccine producing company having a laugh

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bax...ient=firefox-a

again, just to officialy request if the over zealous mod, the grand-pubah of all information on here, could you be as so kind as to return the thread to its original form instead of editing my posts and deliberitly misleading everyone?

i find it quite irresponsible of which ever mod did this, not a gentlemanly thing to do.

just google something before you start to censor it, i know you have the power to change whatever post you want but at least have the moral standard to use that power with dignity and respect instead of being so lazy and irresponsible, maybe just google "Baxter ships vaccine with baxter ships vaccine with H5n1" its not hard.

Whilst you're on, could you pelase answer my question regarding your "family" who are virologists, their qualifications, areas of research, and if they're published or not? Thanks

 

[Teki187]

The problem here is that the facts are not important to the OP. Drug production and sale within both private and public sector is a competitive arena that is matched rarely elsewhere.

But it still doesn't matter as it's not convenient to fit this into the "Drug Companies" collaborative model which the OP and Teki seem to believe exists.

On a side note, it would be far better for patients if this were the case but it is not.

Please tell me what a business's main single function is?

Last time i checked it was to make money via selling a product.

If no one needs a flu jab or flu tablets, that company becomes useless.

Please tell me where my opinion is flawed? Because if i was running a company and was told you can either make 10 million right now and no other income, or 40 million in 1 year through sustained income, i know which I'd rather make.

 

[Jokester]

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bax...ient=firefox-a

again, just to officialy request if the over zealous mod, the grand-pubah of all information on here, could you be as so kind as to return the thread to its original form instead of editing my posts and deliberitly misleading everyone?

i find it quite irresponsible of which ever mod did this, not a gentlemanly thing to do.

just google something before you start to censor it, i know you have the power to change whatever post you want but at least have the moral standard to use that power with dignity and respect instead of being so lazy and irresponsible, maybe just google "Baxter ships vaccine with baxter ships vaccine with H5n1" its not hard.

What on earth are you going on about, nobody has edited any of your posts. Their lack of solid evidence is purely down to them lacking solid evidence in the first place. Putting that search string in just reveals a bunch of 2 bit blogs and and conspiracy sites that aren't worth the web pages they're written on.

Read the Canadian press article again. It does not mention that it was a contaminated vaccine, it was contaminated experimental products. If there was a real story here about vaccines meant for human use being contaminated then it would be big isssue.

The fact you even see this as a conspiracy is actually quite amusing. (the mods bit not the flu)

 

[masterluke]

No i never said they were all the same, but regardless, the huge amounts of income from things like flu tablets is too much to loose for a 1 of payment.

Example, BT charge you a monthly fee, do you think they'd be able to keep there business alive if everyone just payed a 1 off flat rate fee?.

OK.. if you can see that different companies are involved here then surely you can see that if (and this IS an assumption) the company who owns the new drug does not produce any other anti-flu product then they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Forget conspiracy for a sec and look at capitalism and free trade working - if you produce a product which negates the need for the product of a competitor then you can make a killing.

 

[Sankari]

what i also would like to note is that our Media has completely ignored this story - go and google it - you can only find it in places like Canada etc.

This story is nearly a whole month old. Bloomberg reported it in late February! (Perhaps you've only just heard?) Additionally, you are wrong: it was not a vaccine.

This is one of the biggest stories of 2009 so far if not this decade.

No, it's not. It's old news, and it's not what you're claiming it to be.

 

[Keltik THC]

What on earth are you going on about, nobody has edited any of your posts. Their lack of solid evidence is purely down to them lacking solid evidence in the first place. Putting that search string in just reveals a bunch of 2 bit blogs and and conspiracy sites that aren't worth the web pages they're written on.

Read the Canadian press article again. It does not mention that it was a contaminated vaccine, it was contaminated experimental products. If there was a real story here about vaccines meant for human use being contaminated then it would be big isssue.

The fact you even see this as a conspiracy is actually quite amusing. (the mods bit not the flu)

a mod just posted that he had edited my OP!

i shall repeat myself:

Deerfield, Illinois-based pharmaceutical company Baxter International Inc. has just been caught shipping live avian flu viruses mixed with vaccine material to medical distributors in 18 countries. The "mistake" (if you can call it that, see below...) was discovered by the National Microbiology Laboratory in Canada. The World Health Organization was alerted and panic spread throughout the vaccine community as health experts asked the obvious question: How could this have happened?

As published on LifeGen.de (http://www.lifegen.de/newsip/showne...), serious questions like this are being raised:

"Baxter International Inc. in Austria 'unintentionally contaminated samples with the bird flu virus that were used in laboratories in 3 neighbouring countries, raising concern about the potential spread of the deadly disease'. Austria, Germany, Slowenia and the Czech Republic - these are the countries in which labs were hit with dangerous viruses. Not by bioterrorist commandos, but by Baxter. In other words: One of the major global pharmaceutical players seems to have lost control over a virus which is considered by many virologists to be one of the components leading some day to a new pandemic."

Or, put another way, Baxter is acting a whole lot like a biological terrorism organization these days, sending deadly viral samples around the world. If you mail an envelope full of anthrax to your Senator, you get arrested as a terrorist. So why is Baxter -- which mailed samples of a far more deadly viral strain to labs around the world -- getting away with saying, essentially, "Oops?"

But there's a bigger question in all this: How could this company have accidentally mixed LIVE avian flu viruses (both H5N1 and H3N2, the human form) in this vaccine material?

Was the viral contamination intentional?
The shocking answer is that this couldn't have been an accident. Why? Because Baxter International adheres to something called BSL3 (Biosafety Level 3) - a set of laboratory safety protocols that prevent the cross-contamination of materials.

As explained on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosaf...):

"Laboratory personnel have specific training in handling pathogenic and potentially lethal agents, and are supervised by competent scientists who are experienced in working with these agents. This is considered a neutral or warm zone. All procedures involving the manipulation of infectious materials are conducted within biological safety cabinets or other physical containment devices, or by personnel wearing appropriate personal protective clothing and equipment. The laboratory has special engineering and design features."

nope, nothing to do with vaccines, just a vaccine producing company having a laugh, just like they did at porten down when they 'accidently' flushed foot and mouth out into the countryside. lol.

oh well, im off, im not trying to say that 'oh my god this is a conspiracy', i mean read my OP - i just said i was surpirsed and concerned about this and that i may be a bit cynical that a vaccine producing company had done the one thing that could have resulted into the development of a human strain of bird flu. So once again man, stop slandering me and trying to paint me as some sort of conspiracy nut, im only going off what ive read, just because you disagree with me doesnt mean you have to result in personal slants against me.

 

[Teki187]

OK.. if you can see that different companies are involved here then surely you can see that if (and this IS an assumption) the company who owns the new drug does not produce any other anti-flu product then they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Forget conspiracy for a sec and look at capitalism and free trade working - if you produce a product which negates the need for the product of a competitor then you can make a killing.

Well my opinion isn't Conspiracy, just like to point that out.

Ok that's a valid point, so what are the chances of a independent drugs company with no interests in selling medication other then this flu jab starting up? Surely creating a business with 1 sole purpose and 1 form of income which is short lived is extremely poor in judgement?

I guess for this possible outcome to arrise, the government would act as the virtual drugs company and purchase the rights to make the drug.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Please tell me what a business's main single function is?

Last time i checked it was to make money via selling a product.

If no one needs a flu jab or flu tablets, that company becomes useless.

Please tell me where my opinion is flawed? Because if i was running a company and was told you can either make 10 million right now and no other income, or 40 million in 1 year through sustained income, i know which I'd rather make.

Please, pelase tell me that you've never had anything to do with theoretical Economics or - far more importantly and more worryingly - real business.

Your thoughts on the function of business could have been written by a toddler. Do you have the least idea of just how complicated the Pharmaceutical industry is? Actually, come to that - what is your background? What do you do for a living, Teki? A broad description is fine because it sure as **** is nothing - NOTHING - to do with the healthcare sector, Pharm companies, drug tariff settlements or anything else which touches on the things you have opinion on.

Go conspire somewhere else, where it is much harder for you to be shot down. Aliens might be a better bet than Pharmaceuticals