BBC document on Covid (Health Service) and Racism

Tony Edwards said:
What has that got to do with historic systemic racism?
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History is the past. Not the present. You can't tell the difference because you believe in biological group identity so you can't make a distinction between the past and the present. To you, a biological group identity is a biological group identity. No difference between a biological group identity living in 2020 and the same biological group identity living in 1720 - it's the same biological group identity.
 
Skunkworks said:
Can you provide examples of more severe inter-group hostility? You do want to talk about racism, right?
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Im not sure why you think bringing in terrorism is your gotcha as I dont support terrorism but if you are asking.

https://irr.org.uk/research/statistics/racial-violence/
Racist incidents
A racist incident, according to the police, is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s ‘race’ or perceived ‘race’. In 2013/14, there were 47,571 ‘racist incidents’ recorded by the police in England and Wales. On average, that is about 130 incidents per day.
Hate crimes
A ‘Hate crime’ is defined in law as any criminal offence committed against a person or property that is motivated by hostility towards someone based on any aspect of their identity. The five strands of hate crime monitored by police in England and Wales, and Northern Ireland are: disability, gender identity, race ethnicity or nationality, religion, faith of belief and sexual orientation. In 2013/14, there were 44,480 hate crimes recorded by police in England and Wales. Of these, 37,484 were recorded as race hate crime and 2,273 as religious hate crimes.

Deaths with a known or suspected racial element
The Institute of Race Relations monitors deaths with a known or suspected racial element in the UK.[1] Our research indicates that in the twenty years after April 1993 that there were at least 105 such deaths in the UK.
Of these, the vast majority (eighty-five) were in England, with five in Wales, twelve in Scotland and three in Northern Ireland. Within England, twenty-eight murders took place in London.
Twenty people were killed whilst at work as taxi-drivers, as shopkeepers and at pubs or clubs. Whilst the majority of the murders that we recorded involved attacks in the street, eight came from attacks on people in their homes. Of these, several were arson attacks.
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Angilion said:
History is the past. Not the present. You can't tell the difference because you believe in biological group identity so you can't make a distinction between the past and the present. To you, a biological group identity is a biological group identity. No difference between a biological group identity living in 2020 and the same biological group identity living in 1720 - it's the same biological group identity.
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The Windrush incident was less than ten years ago along with the hostile enviroment and the go home vans. The whipping up of racial tensions towards europeans from the brexit side was less than 6 years ago. Then there is all Boris' racist stuff. then the racist campaigns against Sadiq Kahn.
because you believe in biological group identity
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You must be trolling surely.
 
A ‘Hate crime’ is defined in law as any criminal offence committed against a person or property that is motivated by hostility towards someone based on any aspect of their identity.
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wouldn't that make any crime a hate crime? or is there some special definition in law for identity
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Could you give a some clear examples of systemic racism that exist in the UK today?
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I mean I can google it for you if you want.

https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/how-systemic-racism-affects-young-people-uk
How systemic racism affects young people in the UK

Racism can take many forms.

Some think racism is always visible and obvious, and mostly comes from individuals through physical and verbal abuse and an open contempt for those of a certain ethnic or cultural background. While this is definitely a form of racism, other elements of racism are widespread but harder to spot. In the UK, major institutions operate in ways that discriminate against Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) people including children. This is what you might have heard of as systemic, structural or institutional racism.The following stats show where systemic racism affects children in the UK. It’s important to acknowledge these facts to improve our understanding of what racism looks like and how to help tackle it. We’re highlighting this in our commitment to becoming an anti-racist organisation.

When it comes to school, data shows that some children are disciplined far more often than others. Black Caribbean children are 3.5 times more likely to be excluded than all other children at primary, secondary and special educational needs schools. All children have the ability to be disruptive in class so a disparity like this should be examined closely and addressed. Exclusions can be disruptive for a child’s learning and lead to disengagement with education. Some people wrongly attribute this to cultural or racial difference, when in reality it is structural racism at work.
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Thats just from Barnardos, fill your boots.

If you want more just google 'systemic racism that exist in the UK today'.

I dont know why you all think I should be the hub for all racist incidents and knowledge of racism or even why I should have to know everything. Im just some guy that is against racism. I dont really need to go out of my way to find stuff to make me know its alive and kicking.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Could you give a some clear examples of systemic racism that exist in the UK today?
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He struggles to give examples for things he claims tbh... he's not responded to a request for an example of his earlier claim re: people who supposedly think racism doesn't exist.

You'll notice in some threads he simply makes accusations of racism without actually substantiating them, it's quite frequent.

Tony Edwards said:
Thats just from Barnardos, fill your boots.

If you want more just google 'systemic racism that exist in the UK today'.
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Telling someone to google it is rather weak if you're the one making the claim.

In your example you've shown black people are excluded more frequently - this could easily be down to a common mistake woke types make in that they simply point at a difference in outcomes and claim racism, is there anything to show that that difference in outcomes is actually down to racism rather than simply black kids on average being more likely to misbehave in school leading to situations where they're expelled more frequently?
 
Systemic racism articles dont prove anything.

If I am a teacher and I have 7 disruptive children in my class, 5 of them are black and 2 of them are white, I discipline all 7 of them, is that racism?
 
chrcoluk said:
Systemic racism articles dont prove anything.

If I am a teacher and I have 7 disruptive children in my class, 5 of them are black and 2 of them are white, I discipline all 7 of them, is that racism?
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It's a very common fallacy - point at a difference in outcomes, ignore everything else and simply claim some -ism/-phobia or whatever discrimination you're concerned about.

I'll try and find the article but there was an example with speeding tickets in the US - a claim that cops were systematically racist because a disproportionate number of black drivers were getting ticketed by police for speeding, yet when automated cameras replaced cops they still had the same distribution of speeding tickets.

Making some argument simply based on outcomes is like a "god of the gaps" argument - where religious people through history would attribute anything we didn't understand to "god"... essentially it is a "racism of the gaps", spot a difference between groups and if there is a gap that can't be explained (or in plenty of cases no attempt to even look at other things that might explain it) then attribute that gap to "racism".

See also "Simpsons paradox":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson's_paradox

I feel that most woke people, including academics - like plenty of social scientists and philosophers, have a fundamental problem in that they're not numerate enough, they don't understand basic statistics leading to obviously flawed thinking.
 
As long as the children who did bad things get excluded then its fine.

If the trouble makers are likely to be from certain backgrounds that isn't racism... its just an example if people not trying to stick to the rules.

Now if one group was 3.5 times more likely to get excluded for the same offence that would be different.
 
that just proves technology is racist in regard to speed cameras.

do the black children get worst punishments than the white or are they equal and just?
 
dowie said:
It's a very common fallacy - point at a difference in outcomes, ignore everything else and simply claim some -ism/-phobia or whatever discrimination you're concerned about.

I'll try and find the article but there was an example with speeding tickets in the US - a claim that cops were systematically racist because a disproportionate number of black drivers were getting ticketed by police for speeding, yet when automated cameras replaced cops they still had the same distribution of speeding tickets.
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I honestly dont know how systemic racism has been legitimatised, very little of it is based on evidence and mostly on theory. There is issues in society with inequality, but thats not racism thats just something that all poor people suffer from, and of course we have loads of entities carrying out racism actively in their recruitment policies such as the BBC so they can give the impression they are employing enough ethnic minorities. The police even want the law changed so they can favour ethnic minorities in recruitment.
 
Tony Edwards said:
I mean I can google it for you if you want.

https://www.barnardos.org.uk/blog/how-systemic-racism-affects-young-people-ukThats just from Barnardos, fill your boots.

If you want more just google 'systemic racism that exist in the UK today'.
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The thing is that article like most others on "systemic racism" is basically devoid of examples of it.

It, like most other articles, literally looks at outcomes. The conclusion is the because there's a pay gap, between white British and non write British, a lack of BAME teaching staff, non-whites being stopped and searched more frequently these are all a result of "systemic racism".

It strikes me there's a complete lack of analysis and objectivity of other potential reasons for the discrepancy of outcomes. They've simply drawn the conclusion they wanted to from a set of data.

So many identity groups seem to think they have a right to an equal outcome (equity) regardless of their efforts and are no longer content with being provided equal opportunity and a level playing field.

This is why we end up with lightweight soundbite journalism like we see in BBC and channel 4 with their "is covid racist" documentaries.
 
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silvagti said:
The thing is that article like most others on "systemic racism" is basically devoid of examples of it.

It, like most other articles, literally looks at outcomes. The conclusion is the because there's a pay gap, between white British and non write British, a lack of BAME teaching staff, non-whites being stopped and searched more frequently these are all a result of "systemic racism".

It strikes me there's a complete lack of analysis and objectivity of other potential reasons for the discrepancy of outcomes. They've simply drawn the conclusion they wanted to from a set of data.

So many identity groups seem to think they have a right to an equal outcome (equity) regardless of their efforts and are no longer content with being provided equal opportunity and a level playing field.

This is why we end up with lightweight soundbite journalism like we see in BBC and channel 4 with their "is covid racist" documentaries.
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Did you watch the 'Is Covid Racist?' documentary from C4?
 
These arguments all remind me about the recent hysteria in aussieland about the incarceration rates of aboriginals.

Then you read the actual info behind it and realise, maybe the system isn't racist, but instead maybe people just need to commit less crimes?

Screenshot-20210307-233122-Chrome.jpg


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ws-story/8bd621664b1aeb471fab0e438b5dd644?amp
 
The Running Man said:
These arguments all remind me about the recent hysteria in aussieland about the incarceration rates of aboriginals.

Then you read the actual info behind it and realise, maybe the system isn't racist, but instead maybe people just need to commit less crimes?

Screenshot-20210307-233122-Chrome.jpg


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/reduce-indigenous-incarceration-rates-not-so-fast/news-story/8bd621664b1aeb471fab0e438b5dd644?amp
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Stolen land, casinos and alcohol argument coming in 3....2....
 
At least they were objective enough to qualify their article with following explanation :-

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/reduce-indigenous-incarceration-rates-not-so-fast/news-story/8bd621664b1aeb471fab0e438b5dd644?amp

"In saying this, however, it is important to note that these disturbing statistics are not necessarily related to Indigeneity, but rather are a problem of poverty and social dysfunction."

You'd never see that kind of honestly from the BBC or channel 4!

Their articles are all along the lines of :-

Q: Why did the white chicken cross the road.
A: To get to the other side.

Q: Why did the non-white chicken cross the road.
A: Widespread & systemic institutionalised racism

It could simply be that both chickens just wanted to cross the road but that wouldn't suit their agenda or generate as many revenue clicks on the story!
 
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