Soldato
BBC possibly to drop F1 coverage...
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Yeah they have been boring in context and only reason theyve vaguely been entertaining is artifical rules to ensure theres some potential interest elsewhere in the field. As a 'football fan' I ensure I keep an eye on the holding midfield players while the strikers are scoring - just makes me a proper fan no? I only just noticed yesterday that theres actually more than 4 teams in the BPL - I was gobsmacked...
Oh here comes Skeeter - bringing your bandwagon (Trulli) train. Bless you for not having a backbone or a bite
ps3ud0
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LUL WUT?
"It's all boring 'cos Vettel keeps winning and I keep falling asleep 'cos nothing happens in them and I never watch them live anyway wah wah wah!".... yet you still find the need to hang around in this thread constantly moaning about how Sky have screwed you over?
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But thats not what I said - read what I said, I fall asleep, not because its directly a boring race - I just fall asleep. I make sure to record it so I dont miss anything.
My god, you lot love to make loaded assumptions on what people say and then use it as ammunition against them. Its quite pathetic...
At least if you are gonna bring the bandwagon, realise the cause. Its not the first time in this thread Ive had to redirect you accordingly Skeeter
ps3ud0
My god, you lot love to make loaded assumptions on what people say and then use it as ammunition against them. Its quite pathetic...
At least if you are gonna bring the bandwagon, realise the cause. Its not the first time in this thread Ive had to redirect you accordingly Skeeter
ps3ud0
I'm sorry. I'll let you get back to repetitive digs at Sky and people who have signed up to Sky regarding live races you never even watched and don't plan on watching.
After all, "you cant miss what you never had" - ps3ud0, like 10 posts ago.
After all, "you cant miss what you never had" - ps3ud0, like 10 posts ago.
I hate highlights, even extended ones. Most of the excitement is watching that gap close lap after lap and the, is it - is it not going to happen.
The artificial rules, have made it more boring for me. A lot of the time it takes the is he, is he not going to get passed. To yeah he'll get passed.
The artificial rules, have made it more boring for me. A lot of the time it takes the is he, is he not going to get passed. To yeah he'll get passed.
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Fair enough, however if we go back to letting the teams have unlimited budgets & testing, not much in the way of rule and regulation changes then you'll end up with something far worse imo. There is much more to F1, such as the technical and design side (and noise when going to see a GP in person), to be interested in whether or not the teams have to use something like DRS. Its a shame to lose interest in a sport over something quite small like that.
The way I see it is this, in modern-day F1 things like overtaking have always been an issue (I hope we all agree that additional 'natural' overtaking makes races more interesting), but instead of looking directly at the root cause (permanent downforce, circuit design, grip changes etc) the FIA decided to employ other 'out-of-the-box' techniques to get back to that status quo of interesting races.
Im just not interested to wait for the new gizmo they come up with to ensure that, rather than actually dealing with those acknowledged issues that directly cause it. I dont see how budgets/testing or the quickness/lethargy of rule changes changes that fact.
If you think about it outside DRS practical implementation its an idea that just as 'out of the box' as wetting the track before a race is...
ps3ud0
The changes to the tyres caused most the overtaking compared to DRS, not sure if you count those as 'gizmos'. The tracks are not the issue, all other racing categories are fine.
I think with the tyre changes, there is enough overtaking. If we have too much overtaking it would be worse imo and would make leading or winning not so special.
I'm not overly keen on DRS, it has worked well sometimes but needs some tweaking.
Out of interest, what would you implement to fix those issues? I think they have done a lot to do so already.
I think with the tyre changes, there is enough overtaking. If we have too much overtaking it would be worse imo and would make leading or winning not so special.
I'm not overly keen on DRS, it has worked well sometimes but needs some tweaking.
Out of interest, what would you implement to fix those issues? I think they have done a lot to do so already.
I'll give you 2007...because of the Alonso vs Hamilton battle.
I'll give you 2008 because Hamilton drove like a man possessed and didnt crash, which created some good races.
But 2009...this was a bore fest. Procession after procession.
In 2010, same thing...an RBR would pull away at the front and maybe, if we were lucky, Vettel's car would fail. We then had Alonso inching up on the RBR cars even though his Ferrari was hopelessly outgunned. HOWEVER, the races were processional. This was the whole reason why DRS was brought in - to break the processional racing. Below is a very good example of what happened in 2010:
Some people seem to have short memories.
For me, with the exception of Vettel winning everything, 2011 was one of the most exciting seasons I've seen in recent years.
Not a gizmo, weve always had differing tyres/compounds/manufacturers etc, so what they do today is no different to what theyve tried to achieve in the past. I disagree with circuits, things like India being applauded for having wider sections to allow further competition for overtakes in corner sections shows that a lot of circuits need some adjustment for F1, though I tend to generalise that its all the newer ones at fault...
As someone mentioned a DRS overtake just isnt really what we want from an overtake - hell its not far off a blue-flag overtake, just at a fixed position on the track.
If I was a proper 'F1 fan' Id still be aggressively looking into further reduction of downforce, though hand-in-hand with complementary changes in grip level - fundamentally down to a level where cars can follow each other consistently with minimal aero penalties. I do not want tyres to last a significant part of the race, but would want compounds that potentially allowed more than 2 competitive scenerios when it comes to race strategy...
I do think circuits need to be wider on more corners either to enhance already established overtaking spots or to produce new ones. It seems counter-intuitive not to make circuits more overtaking friendly...
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As I've said before, they panicked and implemented the rubbish that is DRS. There rules where working. DD ban was the biggest with cars following about 1/2 the distance. Wonder if EB will improve this even more? Tyres helped, but should bea lot more effective this year, if they really have made them so there's an equal split between strategies. But with having to run both compounds, it kind of destroys running the hard options.
Soldato
Give over. Even Monaco that year featured overtaking, for God's sake! The Vettel-Massa-Rosberg battle in the opening laps for example.
Irony, thy name is sunama....
JRS...in that season, Button won most of the races in the first half of the season. In general, BrawnGP were head and shoulders above everybody else. Followed by RBR.
Mid way through the season, BrawnGP, suddenly went backwards and RBR took up the front running.
In general, Button dominated the first half of the season. Barrichello and Vettel dominated the 2nd half of the season.
After the first half of the season, Button had effectively killed the championship off.
Was there any heart thumping overtaking? Not that I can remember. It is quite possible that Massa was involved in some overtaking but it was of little consequence.
When I think about 2011, I'm thinking of races like Canada, where Vettel was under genuine threat and was eaten up by Button. Same goes for China (was it...Hamilton hunting Vettel).
Now lets talk about DRS, because that's where all this debate started: before 2011, when a driver pulled up behind a slower driver, it was very likely that he was have to follow him. In 2011, this was almost a thing of the past where a faster driver could overtake a faster one and then continue to attempt to attack a faster driver ahead. This is what I like to see: drivers competing for the top positions. I have very little interest in what Massa's fight for 5th place.
Had there been no DRS, there is absolutely no way that we would've been treated to Button's display in Canada. Without DRS, he would've been stuck behind someone in 6th or 7th place and fallen into procession mode.
EDIT: I just stumbled on an interesting random fact:
Several well documented instances have been reported of extremely obese people flushing aircraft toilets whilst still sitting on them. The vacuum action of these toilets sucked the rectum inside out.
comment: now consider that you walk into a toilet on an aircraft. You then suffer from your rectum being sucked inside out...what would the next step be? Do you open the door and ask the aircraft attendant to assist the rectal problem or do you quietly go and sit down on a bunch of cold peas?
Mid way through the season, BrawnGP, suddenly went backwards and RBR took up the front running.
In general, Button dominated the first half of the season. Barrichello and Vettel dominated the 2nd half of the season.
After the first half of the season, Button had effectively killed the championship off.
Was there any heart thumping overtaking? Not that I can remember. It is quite possible that Massa was involved in some overtaking but it was of little consequence.
When I think about 2011, I'm thinking of races like Canada, where Vettel was under genuine threat and was eaten up by Button. Same goes for China (was it...Hamilton hunting Vettel).
Now lets talk about DRS, because that's where all this debate started: before 2011, when a driver pulled up behind a slower driver, it was very likely that he was have to follow him. In 2011, this was almost a thing of the past where a faster driver could overtake a faster one and then continue to attempt to attack a faster driver ahead. This is what I like to see: drivers competing for the top positions. I have very little interest in what Massa's fight for 5th place.
Had there been no DRS, there is absolutely no way that we would've been treated to Button's display in Canada. Without DRS, he would've been stuck behind someone in 6th or 7th place and fallen into procession mode.
EDIT: I just stumbled on an interesting random fact:
Several well documented instances have been reported of extremely obese people flushing aircraft toilets whilst still sitting on them. The vacuum action of these toilets sucked the rectum inside out.
comment: now consider that you walk into a toilet on an aircraft. You then suffer from your rectum being sucked inside out...what would the next step be? Do you open the door and ask the aircraft attendant to assist the rectal problem or do you quietly go and sit down on a bunch of cold peas?
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to be fair - surely the unlimitied budgets / testing highlighted invention and unique designs?
The more areas of the car contrained by the rules, the more similar one team's car is going to be to another
(If I have misunderstood your quote then fair enough - but I honestly dont think I have)
Surely the closer spec cars are, the closer racing will be?
(not for a moment suggesting F1 should be a spec series though)
Unlimited rules opens up the possibility in massive variance in cars and therefore speed and therefore increases the chances for 1 team to run away with it.
Not to mention spiraling budgets would mean everyone would quit within a few years and F1 would die (some of the biggest car makers in the world left due to the cost even with the current restrictive regulations).
(not for a moment suggesting F1 should be a spec series though)
Unlimited rules opens up the possibility in massive variance in cars and therefore speed and therefore increases the chances for 1 team to run away with it.
Not to mention spiraling budgets would mean everyone would quit within a few years and F1 would die (some of the biggest car makers in the world left due to the cost even with the current restrictive regulations).
Dont think barrichello ever dominated anything in the brawn - yes he was good in two races (one of which Button was right behind him for a number of laps to the end) but other than that his performances were pretty forgettable in the race
I cant honestly remember how good he was in quali - he may have been significantly better here, but does this really matter if he dropped back and back in each race?
Was watching Brazil 2009 the other day (where Button qualified 14th, and Barrichello front row - maybe even pole Im not sure), but JB's overtaking to 5th to win the WDC (and I think beat Barrichello in the race) was pretty good racing
I would agree that without DRS he may not have won - and in the dry I completely agree he would have possibly be stuck down as far as 6th/7th , but in the wet.....no I dont honestly think you are right. He has proven over and over again that where even when Vettel /alonso / Hamilton and others struggle he can excel, so he would have probably got a podium at the least (and dont forget how Webber and Schumi were making mistakes last few laps because they were pushing each other)
I totally agree with that - I just dont want to see no more invention being allowed because the rules have left so few opportunities to develop anything different
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