Being offered a new salary next week - what if I don't agree?

SideWinder

SideWinder

SideWinder

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Apologies to the poster whose name I forgot but there was a really insightful post about salaries and asking for more...I just wanted to mention my own upcoming experience.

For context, I am an experienced customer focused operations manager that due to the pandemic, took a large pay cut to find a much needed job and joined the world of fast paced start-ups. The Directors knew my vast experience but of course, I had to prove myself. I had no KPI besides 'answer the phone' and over the past 10 months, I have become critical in managing the customer experience.

The company is growing extremely well with 30% + year on year growth and we have new products launching this year that will make us explode.

I have my notes prepared, proof of achievements, evidence and the Directors have already said in my 6 month review, that I requested, that my salary will be reviewed to reflect the work I am doing. My title is also being changed.

I am on 24k (I am 33 years old) and I am expecting them to offer me something I won't be satisfied with/preparing for the worst...but I could be surprised! I am gunning for Customer Experience Manager as this reflects the role I am doing and these salaries are around 29-32k however I want to go bigger with 35k to allow knock back.

During the review and when they say a figure, what should I say back? I was thinking "Thank you for the offer and I'd like to come back to you with a figure that reflects my value"...to which they will say lets discuss now...is that the way to do it? Or do I straight in say "I was looking at a figure closer to 35"

Advice needed as I have never done this before...

Thank you.
 
People are always so scared to discuss salary, like they're being cheeky. Just tell them what you want in your review, and back it up with the evidence you've already prepared. The worst they can say is no!
 
Worthy said:
People are always so scared to discuss salary, like they're being cheeky. Just tell them what you want in your review, and back it up with the evidence you've already prepared. The worst they can say is no!
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Exactly. :)

But...is there a specific way of saying it politely? :o Or literally go in and say I was looking at X due to XYZ?
 
Well I wouldn't go in ****** and blinding, but you need to be confident in what you're asking for and how to back it up. If you don't believe in your worth, why should they?
 
They are going to look at it as %age increase over your current salary. You need to edge them out of that perspective.

I'd introduce the topic like, "we agreed a figure based on the number of unknowns about what the role was, now we know what it is, we can more clearly see what the market rate is - and what I would need to make this work for me personally, and that is £35k".

Then stop talking. Most folk go into verbal diarrhoea at this stage and give ammunition to be knocked down, not because they aren't sure you are worth it, but because you give them doubts about your belief that you are worth it- which then affects their beliefs that you are worth it when they themselves have to justify it to their leadership.
 
Make sure to rub in how difficult it is to get good staff at the moment :s

Depending on how the impacts the business you may find they'll offer you a reasonable amount right out the gate... maybe... depends on the company and people.
 
@dLockers - Great sentence, thank you and it is bang on.

I know I am a huge asset to the business now and I have so so many examples of how I have managed to reverse negative reviews/experiences/calmed people down. It is down to me that we're flying with regards to high levels of service. Plus training the rest of the team.

@Rroff - Is there a way of wording that, politely/hinting? It is a good point and to be honest, I know they have someone unique with me. :o
 
randomshenans said:
Who do you report to in the startup? Would be interesting where you fit in the org chart of things
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To the Directors. I have kinda asserted myself, politely, as a senior member of the Customer Support team due to my knowledge and experience - something they knew they were getting hence my hire...I believe anyways.
 
Do they have real money coming in the door to match the growth in the business ? If there's nothing in the bank account then you're going to get the "we can't afford it" response. The other thing startups do is to offer equity or options, so be prepared to understand whether those have value to you.
 
peterwalkley said:
Do they have real money coming in the door to match the growth in the business ? If there's nothing in the bank account then you're going to get the "we can't afford it" response. The other thing startups do is to offer equity or options, so be prepared to understand whether those have value to you.
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I do not know but due to the level of growth and record sales, my indication is there would be.
 
So, for some advice from the other side of the discussion:
  • Proper explanations of the work you've done with examples. Be prepared for feedback on areas you may not be delivering as well or need to improve on.
  • Confirm you've benchmarked yourself (and be prepared that I'll go away and check as well).
  • Tell me what you want. This is sensitive whether you go higher and negotiate or just say what you want (don't give a range though). In my business I hate it when people pitch high and then negotiate, it will almost always lose commitment. I want to know what you think your value is, we don't negotiate our values with our clients and I don't expect to do that with my "suppliers". If you're in a sales orientated business this could be incredibly wrong attitude and definitely go in high and negotiate.
That's also how I'd expect you to structure the conversation. When talking about what you want say something polite like "I think based on the market a reasonable level would be £32k" rather than "I want £32k...".
 
SideWinder said:
Apologies to the poster whose name I forgot but there was a really insightful post about salaries and asking for more...
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Me maybe? :)

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/35307004/

The company is growing extremely well with 30% + year on year growth and we have new products launching this year that will make us explode.
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That's not great for a small start-up, start-ups typically raise funding and aim to grow a lot quicker initially, like well over 100% per year... (or crash and burn) and then maybe reduce to like 30% annual growth when they've matured... but if your department is a team of one and you're are reporting directly to the directors then it sounds like they're more like a small company than a startup? Do you have any equity for example?

That's not just me being overly pedantic as it could affect things here - do they have lots of funding from investors to expand or is their growth (and perhaps ability to pay you and other staff) more reliant on how they've performed in the past year.

I have my notes prepared, proof of achievements, evidence and the Directors have already said in my 6 month review, that I requested, that my salary will be reviewed to reflect the work I am doing. My title is also being changed.

I am on 24k (I am 33 years old) and I am expecting them to offer me something I won't be satisfied with/preparing for the worst...but I could be surprised! I am gunning for Customer Experience Manager as this reflects the role I am doing and these salaries are around 29-32k however I want to go bigger with 35k to allow knock back.

During the review and when they say a figure, what should I say back? I was thinking and I'd like to come back to you with a figure that reflects my value"...to which they will say lets discuss now...is that the way to do it? Or do I straight in say "I was looking at a figure closer to 35"
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Title is an easy one (or should be) especially in a small company as you don't have much in the way of internal politics - no one else who might want to claim that title or might be put out by you having it etc.. etc..

I'd not say "thank you for the offer" it isn't an offer when you're already working there, they're telling you what your raise is and you're going to tell them you'd like more.. albeit you've got to do it constructively by making reference to the current market rates and tangible things you've achieved for them already.

I don't see anything wrong with asking for a bit more than you'd be happy to settle for, you never know, they might just give it to you! But if they don't and you're happy with less and you still get them to bump your pay up a bit more than they initially told you then it was still something worth pushing for.

If they're somehow constrained in how much they can pay you and give this as an excuse to knock you back (they really shouldn't be when we're talking about a few thousand here or there around 30k or so) then you could ask about more equity (assuming they give you equity - or if they don't already then this could be an excuse to get them to start).
 
With it being a startup you've got a reasonable chance of a proper raise as there will typically be less rigidity in structure and more opportunities to move up and expand your role as the company grows. If you are doing a great job and they are growing then it will probably cost them £32k+ to hire a suitable replacement anyway. Think in advance about what value you would place on equity options as that might help you eek a bit more out.

One card I've seen played before by management is to not enter into a discussion about your salary up front but rather just hand you a letter with a number on it. I think this is some sort of psychological trick whereby mentally it seems harder to change a number that is physically printed out as opposed to be spoken. I mean if nothing else it means someone needs to go away, amend the letter, reprint it, and hand it over again. It's also a known technique for delivering 'bad' news i.e. sitting down and pointing to a sheet of paper rather than looking them in the eye, so any discontent is directed at the abstract rather than yourself. So prepare yourself for this if the meeting plays out that way and how you will swing it round to justifying your target wage. They know you have vast experience and took a big pay cut for this job so realistically you asking for a 40% raise is more a case of saying you need to be back close to your previous level rather than just chancing your arm.

You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised. Whilst most payrises have been disappointing I did have a promotion once where I got offered more than I was expecting and was prepared to accept.
 
Rather than going in with "i want £35k", is it worth asking them what they are prepared to offer? (after you have given them your evidence etc).

You may be surprised that they are thinking along the same lines or more - by going in with your figure, you may be doing yourself a disservice.

Just a thought, i haven't ever negotiated a salary so may be talking out of my ass.
 
@dowie - Yes it was, hey again. :)

The business, by their choice, have kept it private so haven't opened it up to investment. Working with them for the past 10 months, they like to very much keep things under their control and grow at a rate that we can fully adapt to and still give good service plus great products. I asked about equity in my 6 month review and they said they'd like to ensure they get to know me aka am I here for the long haul. I will certainly ask about this again.

Noted on the wording of 'offer' as yes I am already there which, linking in with @ivrytwr3 's post, we'll see how they in fact provide the new salary to me.

@randomshenans - This is something they do not know and something I asked about when I started. There is such a massive gap with reporting, my speciality, and this is where I really want to swoop in. It is something I mentioned in great length on my first day.

@HangTime - Mm this is my thinking. It is more fluid and I feel confident I can have more of a discussion with my evidence. Who knows, I could be surprised! Maybe they'll email me with the new salary, very true. (we're all remote).
 
Now is absolutely the time to maximise your salary. I wouldn't think of it in terms of absolute or % payrise....they won't be.

All the employer cares about is will your payrise cost less than finding a replacement, and their onboarding, getting up to your level.

TLDR; If you're doing a good job, ask for what you want. 24k for someone that is a successful customer-facing part of a growing, successful business, seems low to me. I would go for 35k and say you want to own the customer experience and be central a part of growing the business etc etc.
 
dLockers said:
Then stop talking. Most folk go into verbal diarrhoea at this stage and give ammunition to be knocked down, not because they aren't sure you are worth it, but because you give them doubts about your belief that you are worth it- which then affects their beliefs that you are worth it when they themselves have to justify it to their leadership.
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Absolutely spot on. Sometimes less is more in these situations. Let them think, consider, stop throwing words at them. Those "awkward" silences are sometimes so powerful, don't be afraid to use it.

Be confident in your worth, and be confident that you're not being cheeky. You have the evidence, the job role has changed, you've forged yourself around the requirements of the business, you've added value and can prove it.
 
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