Being offered a new salary next week - what if I don't agree?

[datalol-jack]

They are acting defensively by knocking you back even on the job title. In you they got good value, since you were willing to take a pay cut, needed a job and brought a good deal experience to their small operation. Growth isn't necessarily cash in the back, which is why they are potentially bricking it regarding the increase in their wages bill (something that has to be paid monthly for most people, come hell or high water).

If they bump you up to manager, give you a budget, additional reports and responsibility, but not the pay packet, it would be much easier for you to parlay a better job down the road while not being under any real pressure to move. Clearly should you get a much better offer later, they'd be caught with their pants down and few real option but to match it or say goodbye. Hence the cordial back and forth at the moment - they are playing for time and want to keep some leverage over you/insurance to deter you from being too successful looking elsewhere.

A further tactic I see here is that they are banking on your commitment over the time already sunk into their business since you started: plans, open projects, personal relationships, etc. 'We can't really afford your skills, but we really appreciate your effort and you're really helping out!' Great, if this were a charity foundation, perhaps the heart string could be plucked. But this a commercial for profit operation, so you should try to avoid being drawn into being too emotionally invested to see who's benefitting the most from your professional contribution.

So two options at the moment.

1: You go back to them and budge them back on the job title, job spec and any other item they could be moved back on to your advantage that's not money, but could be used to get it elsewhere; look for a better job, and leave within a year or two for more money there.

2: You want to stay regardless, in which case still contemplate getting an external offer or additional development/training (paid for by the employer) which you could then negotiate to be added to your base salary after said development completes in some way. The training budget/benefits to base salary/bonus is a longer term approach, and you may need to suffer through a qualification or CPD you may be bored with, which can still fail without an external offer as a tactic. Nonetheless, if you can demonstrate your value and the fact that the business was able to comfortably afford the outlay financially in some way, then you can keep developing the case for above average increases year on year, if not a lump sum.

The extra risk with either approach is that the longer you stay with more duties and responsibilities, the longer your notice period may grow as well. However, equally you'd be in the position of being even more critical to the operation and harder to replace. So it balances out, and you just need to think where your heart lies.

 

[Freefaller]

I'd be doing this. I really would.

Agreed. Then you start to believe in yourself and you push yourself a bit harder and do a little better, develop your skills more and really start to become a leader or expert in your field and/or industry. The **** starts to get real when you start to push for a 6 figure salary or a significant package that includes some high end benefits, as the expectations start to increase in a non-linear way, it's funny but that threshold seems to bring with it a lot more - but generally you tend to have quite a few years of experience so you can ride it.

Imposter syndrome chips away regardless of where you are as you earn more and get yourself up the ladder. In my experience the only time you can make significant improvements in salary is by stepping out of your business or industry and then coming back into it at a different level.

That said, not everyone is after more responsibility or more money - sometimes it is the environment and overall enjoyment of the role that should really be the main point of focus. It depends on you. If you keep doing what you do the way you do because you enjoy it, then even a modest pay rise should be more than enough - if you really want to start pushing the boundaries and what you can / cannot achieve then your development (professional and technical) needs to be taken into consideration.

 

[SideWinder]

Apologies for the delay in replying and I am overwhelmed by the level of support, advice and replies regarding this so thank you so much.

It has really given me a lot to think about and admittedly my confidence has been knocked a lot. A lot of regrets about how I handled the original interview and my confidence was a bit low then as well so that is why I was scared to ask for any more than 24k.

@HangTime Mm seems so and yeah, in hindsight I wish I was firmer at the start.

@dowie Thank you again for the highly detailed replies, it is appreciated. They did offer a 2k London living wage for when I do move back so that is something. Honestly I was terrified about asking for anything extra because of the way the conversation was going...they were 'very' surprised and I was reading the way things were going..if I had said that it wouldn't have gone down very well at all. I will stick it out for the year at least and its fine for now but I am pondering what on earth do I do and even to the point that I am not even sure what I am good at..which is obviously daft as I do have good skills.

@datalol-jack The title is finalised - Customer Service Executive. It is a supervisor role so not a manager. I asked if there was scope to move towards the titles previously discussed and they said yes once there is growth/requirement for it. The courses is an interesting topic and I'd never thought of that before...unsure what I could do one in but something for me to ponder for sure.

I think I miss being in a 'larger' business in some ways where progression is clear whereas here its a bit muddled/start up vibes/doing everything of everything...but on the flip side, I am learning lots about different parts of the business. I don't know. I am going to have a think.

I do miss the work culture as there is zero here...half the team are abroad and technically I have 2 co-workers. Culture means a lot to me and sounds silly but work drinks, social events etc...so yeah, thats on my mind a lot.

 

[ivrytwr3]

Another company not appreciating their staff, you're working your butt off for THEIR business. I bet if you told them you were walking they'd find the cash - but probably not as they under appreciate you and most likely think they can get anyone to fill your position.

Time to start looking elsewhere.

 

[HangTime]

Honestly I was terrified about asking for anything extra because of the way the conversation was going...they were 'very' surprised and I was reading the way things were going..if I had said that it wouldn't have gone down very well at all

This is part of the psychology of negotiation, or rather than pre-negotiation phase where they want to just shut down any idea of there being any negotiation at all. Sometimes they will come out of the traps all guns blazing, acting incredulous that you wouldn't be biting their arm off to accept their terms forthwith. It's designed to put you on the back foot and feel like you can't even enter into a discussion about, like they are already at 100% of their maximum commitment and the only possible route is downhill. Making it very awkward essentially.

Not in all cases but you will see this sort of tactic used by car salesmen and the difference here is they actually hold more power than a car salesman, because you already work for them.

 

[dowie]

Honestly I was terrified about asking for anything extra because of the way the conversation was going...they were 'very' surprised and I was reading the way things were going..if I had said that it wouldn't have gone down very well at all.

Noooo, please never be afraid to ask for more, they've knocked back your request of cash and acted surprised etc.. but so what? You don't need to overly worry about that, you're not doing anything wrong here, it doesn't need to get heated or aggressive you can still calmly put across your pov and ask again.

If you're knocked back re: higher salary (which then becomes a fixed cost for them going forwards) asking for some equity instead or alternatively some variable pay based on hitting targets is a perfectly reasonable request.

The suggestion of training courses made by datalol-jack is a reasonable one too, those are one-off costs to keep you happy rather than an increase in their fixed costs.

Tbh.. I think you should get your CV out there at some point this year, remember you don't *have* to accept any job, you can go through the entire recruitment process and turn down any future employer/just use it for interview practice... but you're in a good position now, experiment with seeing what is out there/what you can get offered. Try not to reveal your current salary to recruiters, try asking for more when made an offer... if you've got nothing to lose, are already happily employed and are happy to walk away then you can just make demands with no fear and you might be pleasantly surprised with just how much money you can actually ask for.

Of course, don't slack off your work if you do start looking, it's always good to leave past employers both regretting the fact that you left and happy to have you back in the future.

 

[randomshenans]

I think you should get your CV out there at some point this year, remember you don't *have* to accept any job, you can go through the entire recruitment process and turn down any future employer/just use it for interview practice... but you're in a good position now, experiment with seeing what is out there/what you can get offered. Try not to reveal your current salary to recruiters, try asking for more when made an offer... if you've got nothing to lose, are already happily employed and are happy to walk away then you can just make demands with no fear and you might be pleasantly surprised with just how much money you can actually ask for.

This. Very much this. You get a sense of the market for one. You get to see what other similar jobs are like for companies. You get practice in interviewing. You get to build confidence. It's very much an employees market out there at the moment (for the most part) and I'd use that to see what's about.

Of course, don't slack off your work if you do start looking, it's always good to leave past employers both regretting the fact that you left and happy to have you back in the future.

Also agreed. Smash the stuff you're doing. Don't wait for them to give you stuff, actively ask how CX can push the business to higher points, set targets and hit them.

 

[dlockers]

As the chaps have said, get your CV out there - but don't do it right this second. You need to let the "knee-jerk reaction" period subside. It does sound like they are capitalising on your good nature both for your role and for your compensation/career.

Make sure to nail your CV. You know how you normally do it in a mad panic just before you send it out? Keep it open regularly and adjust/re-read sections as you get a spare 5. You should be your most favourite subject.

Pits of despair thinking is also totally normal and quite healthy. I like to talk myself onto the ledge as talking myself off of it is the only way to re-group sometimes.

 

[booyaka]

As the chaps have said, get your CV out there - but don't do it right this second. You need to let the "knee-jerk reaction" period subside. It does sound like they are capitalising on your good nature both for your role and for your compensation/career.

Agree with this. If you left - their costs to recruit would be hefty and with lack of co-workers etc to train the new recruit it would be a shambles.

It does seem they are playing a bit on your good nature.

Corny old line - but "Know your worth, know the difference between what you are getting and what you are worth"

If you walked tomorrow - it would cost them a lot more than what your are asking for as a new salary.

 

[SideWinder]

@randomshenans - Indeed and noted on now properly smashing my work. I have started, already, to push harder and support the team further by offering my guidance and experience in any mini projects they'd like to work on. This in turn will be brought up in the team meetings...kinda feel a bit like saying, politely, 'this is who you have here, look at what I am achieving'.

Noted on the CV side of things too...certainly will be looking to update this.

I have also been typing up every single 'achievement' from this year so I can start to properly record it/use as a new batch of evidence but focusing on a broader/leadership related tasks.

 

[dlockers]

@randomshenans - Indeed and noted on now properly smashing my work. I have started, already, to push harder and support the team further by offering my guidance and experience in any mini projects they'd like to work on. This in turn will be brought up in the team meetings...kinda feel a bit like saying, politely, 'this is who you have here, look at what I am achieving'.

Noted on the CV side of things too...certainly will be looking to update this.

I have also been typing up every single 'achievement' from this year so I can start to properly record it/use as a new batch of evidence but focusing on a broader/leadership related tasks.

This is why I love re-writing my CV 'continually'. You read it back after 3, 6, 9, 12 months etc and realise how much stuff you can delete.

Side and completely tangential note: but there is a great book by Chuck Palaniuk (he wrote Fight Club) called Haunted where a chap has about 30 seconds of audio recording on his dictaphone and he keeps recording horrendous things on it, but kinda counts on the next 30 seconds being more mental than the last 30 seconds as it overwrites it.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Since the last chat, the new title and responsibilities also changed. There was a 'manager' in the title and this has reduced to 'executive'. They explained that they needed to rethink the structure as they realised they were running before they could walk.

Classic business lingo for "we've changed our mind, and we're going to low ball you / pass over you"

I hate to say it, but it reads to me like they found flaws in your CV because of the demand for higher wage, then knew you'd crumble if they fired in a low offer.

Get yourself on LinkedIn and start applying elsewhere. Be liberal with your experience, talk up yourself in interviews and "blag it" to a certain extent. Remember, perspective employers only hear what you tell them... if you tell them you're a big fish in a small pond and they want someone with experience in a larger pond (so to speak), they'll pass over you. If I asked you this, how would you answer:

What could you have done differently? Did you undermine yourself?

Best of luck on the new job search.

 

[SideWinder]

Classic business lingo for "we've changed our mind, and we're going to low ball you / pass over you"

I hate to say it, but it reads to me like they found flaws in your CV because of the demand for higher wage, then knew you'd crumble if they fired in a low offer.

Get yourself on LinkedIn and start applying elsewhere. Be liberal with your experience, talk up yourself in interviews and "blag it" to a certain extent. Remember, perspective employers only hear what you tell them... if you tell them you're a big fish in a small pond and they want someone with experience in a larger pond (so to speak), they'll pass over you. If I asked you this, how would you answer:

What could you have done differently? Did you undermine yourself?

Best of luck on the new job search.

Thanks for the feedback.

No offence taken at all and appreciate the words - fear you may be right with some of this.

I don't think I undermined myself but feel that perhaps there was a few things I could have tackled a bit differently...especially my initial interview.

Watch out for a new thread as I may require a bit of advice about the big wide world...