Belgian Grand Prix 2012, Spa-Francorchamps - Race 12/20

Type_R said:
That right there :D Because he is so useless they don't need team orders, he is no-where near Alonso on track so cannot take points off him, win - win :)

EDIT - Di Resta is not on the cards for Ferrari, they will take Perez. I think Di Resta's best chance is Merc, if they have an opening in 2013.
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But they need someone much better than him, the constructors championship is worth millions. You need some one who can win races if your main man has issues.
And that just isn't massa, time for him to step aside and let someone else try, a new fast driver will more than likely take team orders. They can still prove they are a great driver and get another slot in another team. Or stay until Alonso retires.
 
Merlin5 said:
I don't understand what Ferrari see in Massa, he's useless. He's only got 35 points. They should tell him to clear off and get di Resta in.
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Alonso would whip him just the same.

Constuctors money is not a real issue for Ferrari, they still get more than anyone even if they finish 3rd.
 
I think Massa will stay at Ferrari next year. Not because they want him, but because they don't really have much choice.

I think they would have been happy to have Webber or Button, but both those doors are shut. They have said are in no rush for Perez and want him to mature a bit. I think they will keep Massa for another year while developing Perez to take the spot in 2014 with the new regulations. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Massa swaps places and ends up at Sauber.
 
Ferrari have no choice? they could take near enough any driver they want. Webber and Button? oh yeah those two who were looking for new deals, funny that yeah :D
 
I still think they'll want someone different for next year. There's a lot of change coming in 2014, and they'll either want a top driver in there or someone with good experience who can help with car development or set up. Both Webber and Button fit the bill, but even with another year's experience I'm not sure that Di Resta nor Perez do. Clearly Massa doesn't either - not well enough.
 
Depends who wants to play second fiddle to Alonso. I can't see a driver like Di Resta or Rosberg wanting to do that for example.
 
Duke said:
Depends who wants to play second fiddle to Alonso. I can't see a driver like Di Resta or Rosberg wanting to do that for example.
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Not every driver will want to. However, there are some considerations in favour:

- these are young(ish) F1 drivers. They'll back themselves to beat him, even with team favouritism
- Alonso isn't getting any younger. Sportsmen don't often drop off during the course of a season, but returning to a new season is a different matter. Alonso WILL slow down and make more mistakes - just a question of when
- it is Ferrari. Lots of perks and cash, right into F1 retirment and beyond if you end up having a decent career with them
- not many other top teams with financial muscle are queuing up. Mercedes still seem to be struggling, even after a full couple of years
 
Jono8 said:
Since when does a racing driver slow down just because someone is along side them on a straight? :confused:
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since they are being squeezed out and need points to stay in the title hunt?

im not saying hamilton did wrong as he was obviously to the edge and grosjean had a sea of space but with hindsight hamilton probably wishes he would have just lifted for a fraction of a second and retook the place once drs was enabled
 
Oh, I bet he does. However, given the same situation he will react exactly the same again, as would many others. It is part of the instinct that makes him fantastic in other areas.
 
The_Abyss said:
Oh, I bet he does. However, given the same situation he will react exactly the same again, as would many others. It is part of the instinct that makes him fantastic in other areas.
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Exactly, and Lewis knows this. There is no way he was going to lift and no way he is wishing that had of lifted. He is a racing driver. Lifting in situations like that is not an option.
 
Mr Men said:
Alonso would whip him just the same.
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That's what I think, too.
In all my time watching F1, with the exception of MSc, I really can't say that I have seen a better driver than Alonso.

In 2010, the guy almost won the title against the all-conquering RedBull.
In 2012, in the 3rd best car on the grid, he is leading the title race. NOBODY is supposed to be able to do this...but Alonso IS doing it. And its not like the RBR and McLaren cars are being driven by bad drivers - 3 of those drivers are World Champions, including the reigning World Champion!

I remember when Senna (who many rate as the best driver, ever) had the 2nd best car in F1 (in 92 and 93) - even he was unable to lead the Williams cars in the title race.

IMO, MSc in his absolute prime is the only driver who is directly comparable with Alonso.

If you are young driver, you may be able to learn a thing or 2 by being in the same team as Alonso, but if that young driver gets humiliated, it could effectively end his career as a front runner.
 
I can see rosberg going to ferrari if mercedes pull out.

theres no where else to go.
if mercedes dont do a full pull out and leave the team in AMG's hands it wont have the big budget its had for the last 2 seasons.

with that budget look what the team has done.... around the 7th fastest car now from being probably the 3rd fastest at the start of the season

with a smaller fund your self AMG budget they would be nowhere (yes im aware AMG are mercedes but under AMG the team wont have the daimler shareholders backing many of whom already want to pull out of f1)
 
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It's not always about money. Toyota showed that. It's about the people and the attitude as well. Merc have the funds, they have Schumacher and Rosberg, and they have Brawn, but they just don't seem to have the desire to win and joy in racing that Brawn GP had or Ferrari and RBR have. They just have the feeling of a soulless front to a marketing campaign. Maybe being wound out of the corporate strategy and being allowed to be a racing team because they love racing might be a good thing for them.
 
Cavallino said:
No not saying he shouldve slowed down, saying perhaps he shouldve continued going over completely the edge of the race track (which he wasnt at this point). Its all hindsight of course...
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Each one of your posts is embarrassingly anti Hamilton as to be a joke. Firstly one of your pictures showing him with more space than you'd think is post contact, after his front left is hit Hamiltons car moves to the left, because that is what happens when your front left suddenly stops and the other three tyres don't, the car started to move left.

Secondly what you can see in those pictures and what Hamilton can see are ENTIRELY different things, Hamilton can see a white line ahead of his tyre maybe 10 metres ahead of his car, he doesn't want to touch the white line. Try being in a formula one car, with a bunch of people turning right ahead of you any second and braking with 2 tyres on the grass or 2 tyres on the white line vs the other two on the tarmac..... that would have been an accident anyway.

As for its not really Grosjeans fault because he's only focusing ahead of him, sorry, BS. On lap 44 of that race you needed to be aware of whats going on ALL AROUND YOU at ALL TIMES. In the first and most dangerous corner its absolutely without question inexcusable to not focus on who might be behind and to the side of you just because you might want to jump up the inside. There was never a chance in hell of jumping up the inside, he was trying to take an absurd line into a corner that likely had Hamilton not been there, caused contact anyway, either with the cars infront because he can't make that tight a turn that fast, or cars behind if he has to brake so hard to miss those guys he's dead weight in that corner.

Every single part of what he did today was inept, wrong, dangerous and unforgivable. The excuse of "he was only focusing in front" is barely passable for lap 44, for lap 1, not passable at all.

All of your crap about maybe Hamilton could have moved over more.... it doesn't matter, Hamilton already moved over and Grosjean still went over. You're suggesting that with probably 3 car widths to his left AND the racing line on his left, that Hamilton would have avoided any problems if he moved over further. Sorry but if Hamilton was further over, the likelyhood is Grosjean would have moved over further as well and as said, if Hamilton hits the grass and tries to brake, his car spins, doesn't stop and hits everyone ahead anyway.

Not aware he was there... then why did he shoot over very sharply and stop right before hitting Hamilton? Why, because he knew he was there, he was purposefully trying to squeeze him and screwed it up completely.

I like Grosjean but that was beyond reckless today and a 1 race ban is incredibly lenient.
 
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sunama said:
In 2012, in the 3rd best car on the grid, he is leading the title race. NOBODY is supposed to be able to do this...but Alonso IS doing it.
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I hate these kind of simplistic generalisations about "best cars". The fact is his cars performance has varied from track to rack and also under varying conditions. For example the Mclaren has supposedly been the best car on the grid this season but in truth it hasn't been the best car in numerous races. For example so far it has been extremely poor in wet conditions due to the drivers not being able to switch the tyres on whereas the Ferrari has been the best car on the grid in these conditions. On top of that you have to take into account the effect track temps etc played in the early part of the season, it was like a lottery in terms of which cars race pace would be best and thus having the best car was entirely dependant on numerous factors, many of which were out of the teams control hence why we had so many different winners and such a high level of unpredictability... The best car on the grid did not necessarily mean the best car in the race.

I rate Alonso highly and consider him the most complete driver on the grid (although not the fastest) but this whole "oh he's winning in the third best car" stance is just ridiculous and looks at the sport in an incredibly simple and basic manor.
 
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sunama said:
I remember when Senna (who many rate as the best driver, ever) had the 2nd best car in F1 (in 92 and 93) - even he was unable to lead the Williams cars in the title race.
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Again you're looking at things way to simply. No one i repeat NO ONE would have been able to beat the Williams of 92. That car was arguably the most dominant car in F1 history because of its active ride heigh suspension system. At certain points in the season they were lapping 2 seconds a lap quicker for the entire race than the next fastest cars (and that was when they were cruising...). If i remember correctly they lapped the entire field in one race (possibly Imola). Ricardo Patrese finished second in the championship that year ahead of Senna and he is the definition of an average driver !

Comparing Alonso beating supposedly better cars this season to Senna not being able to beat the Williams of 92 is laughable, the difference between the best car this season and the Ferrari is pretty much non existent compared to what it was like in 92. Its a bizarre and illogical comparison to make.

From the tyres to the EBD ban, the sport nowadays is setup in order to equalise the cars as much as possible, the performance difference is minor whereas back in the early 90s it was just a straight up no holds bar technology race.
 
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Big lotus fan here.. Been so for a while of the team

Tough call for me, I'm split between grid penalty and ban

I agree it was bad
I agree its happened too many times

What I don't agree with is the line
And it took out several championship contenders.. Read that somewhere

Also if we are cumulating race incidents shouldn't maldanaldo take the season off?

In a way I'm kinda glad of the ban, i support lotus over the drivers so at least the car gets to compete at monza with no penalty, which is a good call IMO, in fact when it's purely driver I'd like to see more of only penalising the driver.. Yes I'm aware its a team sport

Edt. Also glad shumacher didn't get a penalty, that would have been ott, no bias involved from me on that one
 
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