Soldato
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Love that halo.
Poll: Belgian Grand Prix 2018, Spa - Race 13/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Soldato
The ferrari is miles better than the merc currently.
Caporegime
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Spa is often poor in the dry, epic in the rain. Hungary is the same, as are other tracks. The real difference in the rain is the tracks aren't just easy mode for these cars. The problem with thermally limited tires is that if someone finds a different line and can really push the limit between losing grip or not they'd ruin their tires pushing too hard in corners so any difference in ability to take a corner is removed from the driver, they just have to stick to a temp on the tire or the tires degrade extremely quickly yet if you keep tire temps down they last forever.
Rain is bringing back driver difference but it shouldn't take rain for drivers to become more influential on lap speed.
I think from the incoherent rant here that you're saying Ferrari isn't faster because Mercedes engines were in the top 5 and Ferrari weren't. Yeah, speed trap data doesn't say who has the fastest engine. Vettel only really got DRS effectively on the first lap and had his engine turned down in the last 15-20 laps, Hamilton had DRS once really and also turned his engine down.
Speed traps are usually filled with cars who in the final 10-15 laps are still pushing and get an overtake done with DRS.
Even without that speed trap alone doesn't dictate who has the faster engine.
If one car accelerates to 270kph in 5 seconds out of the corner and takes another 5 to get to 300kph then tops out while another car takes 8 seconds to get to 270kph, 5 seconds to get to 300kph then another 3 seconds to get to 305kph... over the straight it will be much slower but it would have a higher speed trap number. Speed data doesn't even indicate which car has the engine capable of the highest speed, because cars have different levels of drag and downforce so even excluding DRS an engine with higher capable top speed can show a lower top speed on a car because it has more downforce bolted on exactly because it has more power that enables to carry the extra downforce. When you throw in DRS and race conditions, often the front runners turning down engines after the final pitstop, speed trap data tells you literally nothing.
So you're using useless data which doesn't say what you think it does, while every team, Ferrari, Mercedes, RBR, pundits, drivers all say Ferrari has the fastest engine... guess who I believe.
Man of Honour
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Yup, one hell of a party mode!
Man of Honour
That race was pretty dull. F1 is only interesting the first 10 laps lately.
You are just being picky and if you want to use your own formulas then we never will know which engine really is the best.
Present the true data then o wait you can't so we have to just go with what we are being fed then.
I would also like to point out i was replying to some one who mentioned about Renault engine being really bad and redbull are making it look good well going by what you are saying redbull ran the lowest down force also was able to use drs yet Saints beat them in speed trap according to the data with same engine
Teams say lots of things its mind games they do not have access to all the data only there own.
Caporegime
Just because the halo was hit doesn't mean it saved anyone. The car was coming from behind, it's trajectory would have kept it away from his head regardless.
It was likely poor due to so many cars going out. Especially those which were out of position like kimi, Bottas and Daniel. It would have been a much more interesting midfield otherwise. We also lost Alonso who is no stranger to pulling one out of the bag with the rubbish car he is in and LeClerk who is a rising star and gets his car into a good place.
If we had lost the Williams, Grojean or a Toro Rosso I think it would have been a better race in the mid field.
If we had lost the Williams, Grojean or a Toro Rosso I think it would have been a better race in the mid field.
Caporegime
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It's amazing how many people are trying to say that. Because obviously everything else stopped while Alonso's car was moving. Leclerc for instance wasn't moving in the exact direction to take him into that tire... nope. The fact that Leclerc's car literally pushed Alonso's tire which caused it to spin around apparently went unnoticed by you. As in, there was a forward force being applied precisely because Leclerc was moving direction into it. Without the Halo it was exceptionally likely that the next thing to get hit as Leclerc's car keeps moving forward is Leclerc's head.
As for Hulk's penalty, pretty lucky, very dangerous crash, could have been deadly, was brain dead as he seemed to attempt to brake a good 20m later than he should and he was only racing to get into a slow traffic jam, ie being cautious and arriving 2 seconds later wouldn't have changed things for him.
Still no where near the intent of Grosjean in Spa who saw Ham and straight pushed him over deliberately. Still a truly amateur moment from Hulk.
Caporegime
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https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2018/eventtiming-information-28
Race max speeds, Speed trap in Spa is top of the hill, s1 line is just before the braking zone end of straight and full 23kph faster than the fastest 'speed trap' number in the race. Hamilton was top of the speed trap yet 7th by the end of the straight. Ricciardo managed 4kph higher than Sainz at the end of the straight and he retired fairly early and likely had a fair amount of damage (though if it reduced downforce it may have actually reduced drag). Max was 9kph slower than Ricciardo at the end of the straight but only 3kph lower in the speed trap. Drag increases exponentially, not linearly, so lower drag makes little difference at lower speeds and an ever larger difference at higher speeds.
Bottas was highest speed with the end of the straight but he also had a lower downforce/drag setup than Hamilton and he was the fastest car with the latest drs overtake also against another fast car as in you get drs/slipstream combo for longer against Perez than you would Hartley/Vandoorne.
THe list out of context as you've tried to use it, it utterly meaningless, with context the results are easily explainable. Vettel had more engine power and ran a decently high downforce design and had the slowest speed of anyone at S1 and was only 10th in the speed trap. Ericsson was 4th in the speed trap despite being a generally slow driver.
You simply can't in any way go hey, look at the speed trap, this shows that Renault have more power than people say and Ferrari isn't the fastest engine, because is just doesn't in any way work like that.
Let's also not forget how easily Vettel breezed past Hamilton on the first lap.. yet is lowest in the listed speeds at the end of that straight. So Vettel was doing at most 320kph(the fastest he went there all race) in the first lap yet drivers were hitting up to 345kph later in the race. This is the major issue, cars are MUCH faster at the end of the race but most of the top drivers have settled for position and cruise the final 15 laps not pushing the engines at all hard and also not fighting anyone so no DRS + high engine power combinations.
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Man of Honour
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Agreed. We haven't seen anything yet to justify Halo. We will eventually, but the FIA are trying desperately to justify it. The Halo device took a hit, but given the height it is unlikely to have come into contact with the helmet.
Soldato
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Perhaps.......this time.
Perhaps not but we will never know will we?
But it was close enough to be of concern.
Halo does not appear to be affecting performance or driveability and it is clear it will aid safety in similar situations to turn 1 today. Or instances like the Jules Bianchi crash.
I really dont see why people are having such an issue with it.
Soldato
A pretty dull race, with most of the excitement happening before Sunday. 3/10 for me. I fell asleep with three laps remaining. Hulkenberg got off lightly I think.
Halo did its job today, whether necessary or not. That doesn't justify its existence for me, as I still consider it a complete visual aberration. It does show the positive impact a safety device here can have, it doesn't mean that halo is the right one for the sport.
Nothing here today halted my slow decline of interest in F1. A poor day all round really, as the normally excellent MotoGP also managed to stage a farce.
Halo did its job today, whether necessary or not. That doesn't justify its existence for me, as I still consider it a complete visual aberration. It does show the positive impact a safety device here can have, it doesn't mean that halo is the right one for the sport.
Nothing here today halted my slow decline of interest in F1. A poor day all round really, as the normally excellent MotoGP also managed to stage a farce.
Soldato
Because it looks aesthetically absolutely terrible.
Soldato
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F1 cars are designed to work, not look good.
Man of Honour
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It would have made absolutely no difference in the Jules Bianchi crash. There were incidents around that time in other series where it would have though.
Hopefully they find a better solution in future. It puts me off buying the new F1 game. I am used to it on TV at least now.
Soldato
Nonsense. Looking good is all part of the show, the supposed glamour and experience. Drivers think so. Fans think so. Sponsors think so. Even Liberty think so.
That doesn't mean that safety needs to be compromised.
Soldato
pitpass said:
Not exactly on the level of previous strops that he's thrown, to be fair.
At the end of the day, Mercedes have enjoyed a distinct advantage for every year of the modern turbo era until now - the Ferrari clearly is a decent chassis, the power unit is working well with good horsepower and driveability. Hamilton's just going to have to knuckle down in the remaining races rather than rely on having a car advantage. That, or pray for rain at every remaining race!
