Poll: Belgian Grand Prix 2018, Spa - Race 13/21

[CaptainRAVE]

got any comparison videos at least the one I posted showed different teams to illustrate the point made by Maurizio Arrivabene

The point is irrelevant if the fia don’t care. Teams have been pushing this rule for as long as I have followed f1.

 

[Regy53]

Anybody questioning the halo

leclerc by Ross c, on Flickr

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Anybody questioning the halo

leclerc by Ross c, on Flickr

Above and infront of his helmet. Nowhere near the raised sides of the cockpit. Depends on the trajectory I guess. It will be of use eventually. Still looks terrible.

 

[ThestigGT999]

The point is irrelevant if the fia don’t care. Teams have been pushing this rule for as long as I have followed f1.

why was it brought up then?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

why was it brought up then?

Anyone can post anything they like on twitter. Plenty has been said against Ferrari also, but again, the fia dont care. If the fia don’t care, the point is even more irrelevant.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

Above and infront of his helmet. Nowhere near the raised sides of the cockpit. Depends on the trajectory I guess. It will be of use eventually. Still looks terrible.

And where would the wheel gone if the halo was not there? Bearing in mind Alonsos car was in a downward trajectory over the front of leclercs car and leclerc was moving forwards. Chances are he would have had a face full of Alonsos wheel if the halo were not there.

You only have to look at the sudden change in attitude of alonsos car in mid flight to see the impact on that halo was massive. It deflected Alonso like a snow plough.

 

[edGfaCTor]

https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2018/eventtiming-information-28

Race max speeds, Speed trap in Spa is top of the hill, s1 line is just before the braking zone end of straight and full 23kph faster than the fastest 'speed trap' number in the race. Hamilton was top of the speed trap yet 7th by the end of the straight. Ricciardo managed 4kph higher than Sainz at the end of the straight and he retired fairly early and likely had a fair amount of damage (though if it reduced downforce it may have actually reduced drag). Max was 9kph slower than Ricciardo at the end of the straight but only 3kph lower in the speed trap. Drag increases exponentially, not linearly, so lower drag makes little difference at lower speeds and an ever larger difference at higher speeds.

Bottas was highest speed with the end of the straight but he also had a lower downforce/drag setup than Hamilton and he was the fastest car with the latest drs overtake also against another fast car as in you get drs/slipstream combo for longer against Perez than you would Hartley/Vandoorne.

THe list out of context as you've tried to use it, it utterly meaningless, with context the results are easily explainable. Vettel had more engine power and ran a decently high downforce design and had the slowest speed of anyone at S1 and was only 10th in the speed trap. Ericsson was 4th in the speed trap despite being a generally slow driver.

You simply can't in any way go hey, look at the speed trap, this shows that Renault have more power than people say and Ferrari isn't the fastest engine, because is just doesn't in any way work like that.

Let's also not forget how easily Vettel breezed past Hamilton on the first lap.. yet is lowest in the listed speeds at the end of that straight. So Vettel was doing at most 320kph(the fastest he went there all race) in the first lap yet drivers were hitting up to 345kph later in the race. This is the major issue, cars are MUCH faster at the end of the race but most of the top drivers have settled for position and cruise the final 15 laps not pushing the engines at all hard and also not fighting anyone so no DRS + high engine power combinations.

Yes I agree it does appear meaningless but it is all we have data wise so it is not meaningless and does give a picture of performance (If an engine was really bad as we did see in past with Honda it showed it on speed traps)

Unless you provide the data for each engine this is all we have to go by so you can claim about this engine is more powerful so on but you are not backing it up with any data.

I think you have forgotten the main compare originally was some one who mentioned about Red Bull doing better job with the engine then Renault team which can't be now can it they use the same engine and maps.

That first lap over take is meaningless and nothing to do with engine power or top speed you just wrote about other factors well its the same with that.

 

[ThestigGT999]

Anyone can post anything they like on twitter. Plenty has been said against Ferrari also, but again, the fia dont care. If the fia don’t care, the point is even more irrelevant.

I was talking about what was shown on Sky Italia and what was said by Maurizio Arrivabene

 

[Armageus]

Just because the halo was hit doesn't mean it saved anyone. The car was coming from behind, it's trajectory would have kept it away from his head regardless.

Agreed. We haven't seen anything yet to justify Halo. We will eventually, but the FIA are trying desperately to justify it. The Halo device took a hit, but given the height it is unlikely to have come into contact with the helmet.

I'm not 100% sure tbh, but at least we didn't have to find out.


Different view not yet posted I think:

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I was talking about what was shown on Sky Italia and what was said by Maurizio Arrivabene

None of those sources are at all biased of course.

 

[Shimmy]

Have to say I'm a bit embarrassed that it took the shunt this weekend to change my opinion about the halo. It almost certainly saved Leclerc serious injury or worse.

https://i.redd.it/dm5j7kl2nli11.gif low res frame by frame posted on Reddit.

 

[Steampunk]

It does very much look like the front right wheel/corner of Alonso's car was spinning into Leclerc's face before the halo deflected it. The back of Alonso's car was spinning over and away from Leclerc, but that meant the front was spinning around into Leclerc's cockpit space.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Have to say I'm a bit embarrassed that it took the shunt this weekend to change my opinion about the halo. It almost certainly saved Leclerc serious injury or worse.

https://i.redd.it/dm5j7kl2nli11.gif low res frame by frame posted on Reddit.

That thing is pretty darn strong. It didn’t budge in the slightest.

 

[steve45]

Have to say I'm a bit embarrassed that it took the shunt this weekend to change my opinion about the halo. It almost certainly saved Leclerc serious injury or worse.

https://i.redd.it/dm5j7kl2nli11.gif low res frame by frame posted on Reddit.

I didnt see the crash during the race and i didnt bother with "highlights". Looks like it would have been a bad day if he didnt have the halo, I guess we will never no for absolute certainty, but it sure looked like it saved him from head/neck injury at the very least! I'm sure Leclerc is thankful for it.
I'm over the whole halo issue now, no it dosnt look great but meh, there are much more pressing issues with F1 at the moment than an concerning yourself with an ugly bit of safety equipment, its here to stay and this crash will always be referred to when the argument comes for removal.

 

[Mr Jack]

It does very much look like the front right wheel/corner of Alonso's car was spinning into Leclerc's face before the halo deflected it. The back of Alonso's car was spinning over and away from Leclerc, but that meant the front was spinning around into Leclerc's cockpit space.

It's not the halo that deflects Alonso's car, it's the top of Leclerc's car. The halo breaks the suspension but does little to alter the path of the car overall. I continue to be convinced that without the halo the tyre would have missed Leclerc's head just the same.

However, it's difficult if not impossible to judge without a proper analytical approach. I hope the FIA do such a thing then, perhaps, we'd get a definitive answer.

 

[this_is_gav]

Ultimately it doesn't matter whether it would have injured Leclerc or not - the halo did it's job and removed any possibility of that.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

I am flabbergasted that people can watch that crash and not sing the praises of the halo..
It CLEAR as day deflects Alonso's right front wheel above and over leclerc's helmet.
Are you are so set against the aesthetics of the vehicle that you are unwilling to accept the thing that makes the cars not as pretty almost certainly saved a drivers life, and certainly saved him from serious injury, then you are a very odd individual indeed.

 

[Mr Jack]

Are you are so set against the aesthetics of the vehicle that you are unwilling to accept the thing that makes the cars not as pretty almost certainly saved a drivers life, and certainly saved him from serious injury, then you are a very odd individual indeed.

The people who disagree with disagree with your "almost certainly". I would say the probability it made a difference is very, very small indeed. In fact, how odd would it be if after all these years of F1 racing in which even those introducing the halo agree it would not have saved a single life, it did so in it's first season? The chances are that, like all the other times we've seen one car mount another, it would have passed harmlessly overhead. If a proper analysis shows I'm wrong then I'll accept it saved a life but none of the video or images I've seen so far suggest that is the case.

 

[Psycho Ned]

Indeed, I'm no fan of how it makes the car look (though to be honest you kind of tune out of it now) but regardless of if the car would have hit him or not this time it proved it can take the force of a whole car landing on top of it and not deform clearly it has merit being there.

 

[cu3ed]

The people who disagree with disagree with your "almost certainly". I would say the probability it made a difference is very, very small indeed. In fact, how odd would it be if after all these years of F1 racing in which even those introducing the halo agree it would not have saved a single life, it did so in it's first season? The chances are that, like all the other times we've seen one car mount another, it would have passed harmlessly overhead. If a proper analysis shows I'm wrong then I'll accept it saved a life but none of the video or images I've seen so far suggest that is the case.

I really hope you dont work in public engineering or construction of some kind with that attitude.

Slap..bang, the front right woudl have landed right into the cockpit,.