Biceps

Banzai_Joe · 16 Jan 2007 at 11:50

digitalwolf said:
I do eat protein but probably not enough. My mate has been telling me to take Insulator protein supplements but I'm worried about it hampering my growth as I am not 21 yet and haven't finished puberty totally.

Is it worth the risk?

I'm not sure about 'risk', but at 21 your bones are just about full grown. Normal whey protein will do you mate. Your body should adapt quite well at your age. Protein is an essential food if you train hard with weights. Its totally catabolic if you train and do not supplement enough protein. I've experienced muscle atrophy from not supplementing enough, i actually got smaller :rolleyes:

not good !

Remember you don't just have to buy protein powder. Eggs, tuna, white fish, red and white meat will all give you protein. Red meat will give you creatine also, which is the best natural supplement ever, imho (cos it really works for me

)
If you have can afford it, i'd recommend whey protein, glutamine and creatine. Train hard and eat well!

Chong Warrior · 16 Jan 2007 at 12:58

k.Jacko said:
If you have can afford it, i'd recommend whey protein, glutamine and creatine. Train hard and eat well!

Just out of interest how much glutamine do you supplement with? Most of the big guys who swear by it use around 40g a day (a bit excessive I think, that'd be around 20% of my daily protein intake on a single amino acid) I tried it using about 15g a day and it was just useless, might aswell have been flour.

From what I understand supplementing with L-Glutamine is useless as it's oxidized to glucose in the body anyway and 0% actually reaches the muscles. About the only thing glutamine is good for is gut health..

_Jimlad_ · 16 Jan 2007 at 13:57

J.D.K said:
If you want to build strength, try lifting heavier weight but lower reps, say 12.5kg dumbells in 2 sets of 8 reps or so. No need to do upto 20 reps when your goal is to build strength, to do that you need less reps more weight!

what he said

Banzai_Joe · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:07

Chong Warrior said:
Just out of interest how much glutamine do you supplement with? Most of the big guys who swear by it use around 40g a day (a bit excessive I think, that'd be around 20% of my daily protein intake on a single amino acid) I tried it using about 15g a day and it was just useless, might aswell have been flour.

From what I understand supplementing with L-Glutamine is useless as it's oxidized to glucose in the body anyway and 0% actually reaches the muscles. About the only thing glutamine is good for is gut health..

Hi CW. Personally i take 10g in 2 doses with creatine/carb mix on training days. With creatine i feel fuller and stronger, but with extra glutamine inside me i do feel like i maintain better strength and mass. Although it aint an essential amino, your levels are bound to be knocked right down when weight training, so imho glutamine supplementation is quite worthy. The bodybuilders who take in 40g a day must either know 'exactly' what they're doing and feel the benefits, or know nothing at all and follow what the next guy does.
It aint too cheap so experimenting may cost you some dorra!

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:15

general rule of thumb with protein is you should take in ATLEAST a gram of protein per pound of bodyweight! i weigh 75/76kg's so roughly 165lb's and daily i ingest 2 maximusle cyclone shakes and 1-2 met-rx supreme whey shakes in shakes alone this puts my protein intake up to around 130-140 then i am eating 4meals per day of high protein and i still struggle to put weight on :mad:

, whats really important to my body is high calorie intake!

alexakasloth · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:20

How many carbs are you taking in?

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:21

$loth said:
How many carbs are you taking in?

a high amount as my meals are mainly chicken and rice / tuna and rice or pasta's

**
edit i'm whats known as a hard gainer and it sucks

, you get people saying aren't you lucky you never put weight on but i'm just as unlucky as the people that put weight on easily

Chong Warrior · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:24

k.Jacko said:
Hi CW. Personally i take 10g in 2 doses with creatine/carb mix on training days. With creatine i feel fuller and stronger, but with extra glutamine inside me i do feel like i maintain better strength and mass. Although it aint an essential amino, your levels are bound to be knocked right down when weight training, so imho glutamine supplementation is quite worthy.

Are you sure it's not just the Creatine giving you those benefits you're feeling? I'm not convinced about glutamine at all, I think it's all the hype it got/ gets.

harris1986 said:
...daily i ingest 2 maximusle cyclone shakes and 1-2 met-rx supreme whey shakes in shakes...

oh dear!

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:29

why the ohdear? cyclone is the current best selling all-in-one protein/creatine supplement world wide! based on 80reviews it gets 4stars (the only reason it doesn't get 5 is due to it's taste, but if you avoid chocolate and strawberry then it's easy to get down you)!

MTA99 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:30

harris1986 said:
a high amount as my meals are mainly chicken and rice / tuna and rice or pasta's

**
edit i'm whats known as a hard gainer and it sucks , you get people saying aren't you lucky you never put weight on but i'm just as unlucky as the people that put weight on easily

Make sure you've got all your amounts correct - protein, carbs and fat. If you rely on gut feeling (pardon the pun) you'll find it hard to grow. It takes time to battle against your metabolism so make certain you've got the diet nailed!!

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:33

MTA99 said:
Make sure you've got all your amounts correct - protein, carbs and fat. If you rely on gut feeling (pardon the pun) you'll find it hard to grow. It takes time to battle against your metabolism so make certain you've got the diet nailed!!

i am a trained dietary consultant i have a fairly good idea of my diet, i do bulk up but it's slowly! there is one benefit to it though in that when i bulk up i put on ripped muscle as opposed to people that bulk up quickly and aren't as shredded, suppose it's a trade off

MTA99 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:34

harris1986 said:
....cyclone is the current best selling all-in-one protein/creatine supplement world wide!.....

Unfortunatley its bought by people with more money than sense who think that a shiney new pair of trainers and a gym membership will make them look like the guys on the adverts.

Look at myprotein.co.uk see how cheap whey really is. Every extra penny you pay for maxi-muscle is going to fund their marketing machine *not* to make you any bigger!! :eek:

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:37

i've had considerable gains (not just size but strength and recovery too) from cyclone as have many of the instructors in the gym that i'm a trainer of! agreed there are plenty of people that buy supplments without knowing what the full ramifications are, i tend to get a lot of my complete whey supplements shipped over from the states and it's by big name brands such as BSN, cytosport, muscletech and including shipping each tub comes to around £15-£20pounds (these are 2.2kg+ tubs)

MTA99 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:38

harris1986 said:
i am a trained dietary consultant i have a fairly good idea of my diet

Fair enough! :eek:

There's loads of posts on here from people who are skinny, "hard gainers" who don't eat enough. They're convinced they eat loads for their size.

Obviously not the case with you!!

MTA99 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:39

harris1986 said:
i've had considerable gains (not just size but strength and recovery too) from cyclone as have many of the instructors in the gym that i'm a trainer of! agreed there are plenty of people that buy supplments without knowing what the full ramifications are, i tend to get a lot of my complete whey supplements shipped over from the states and it's by big name brands such as BSN, cytosport, muscletech and including shipping each tub comes to around £15-£20pounds (these are 2.2kg+ tubs)

My comment about MP remains!

Chong Warrior · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:39

harris1986 said:
why the ohdear? cyclone is the current best selling all-in-one protein/creatine supplement world wide! based on 80reviews it gets 4stars (the only reason it doesn't get 5 is due to it's taste, but if you avoid chocolate and strawberry then it's easy to get down you)!

Maximuscle... They are quite possibly the biggest rip-off merchants in the business. They make outlandish, ridiculous claims via promotions and advertising that's paid for by...? Their ridiculously high profit margin maybe?

If you're made of money then fine that's upto you, your choice.

Just out of interest what do you think is so special about Cyclone? How much is that stuff, is it still about £40 for 1kg?

The fact you're a trained dietry consultant and you still buy into this stuff just amazes me even more... you must be on good money

harris1986 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:44

as i said i can get it cheap

, and due to my work lifestyle i don't have the time to fully prepare meals containing high amounts of protein i.e. 40-50g per meal, so cyclone can actually aid my performance, yes supplements within this country are over-priced hence as i said before i get mine from abroad making them atleast £10-20 cheaper including shipping!

FYI - supplements work (FACT), some people benefit from certain supplements better than others yes, but as a whole they work! LA muscle norateen is a prime example of this!

MTA99 · 16 Jan 2007 at 15:58

harris1986 said:
as i said i can get it cheap , and due to my work lifestyle i don't have the time to fully prepare meals containing high amounts of protein i.e. 40-50g per meal, so cyclone can actually aid my performance, yes supplements within this country are over-priced hence as i said before i get mine from abroad making them atleast £10-20 cheaper including shipping!

4.5 kgs of 80% whey for £22.93 inc del. Now that's cheap!!

harris1986 said:
FYI - supplements work (FACT), some people benefit from certain supplements better than others yes, but as a whole they work! LA muscle norateen is a prime example of this!

Yes, course supplements work, no one has suggested otherwise. All that's been suggested is that maximuscle might not be the best value for money and/or might not be able to meet the claims of their marketing dept.

Banzai_Joe · 16 Jan 2007 at 16:00

Chong Warrior said:
Are you sure it's not just the Creatine giving you those benefits you're feeling? I'm not convinced about glutamine at all, I think it's all the hype it got/ gets.

Lol, thought you'd ask that, seeing as the benefits i described are common to creatine, but yeah, pretty much. Although when i used to stack Twinlabs glutamine with Twinlab Triple Whey protein the results were even better. And at that time, i'd laid off the creatine. My friend was UK and Europe Sales Manager for Twinlab, he used to give me unbiased advice (as a friend) and the odd freebie to experiment with

But yes mate, i do believe it works. You seem knowledgeable enough, so why not give it another go and make an informed decision, although it is hard to form a control to compare it to.

Oakesy2001uk · 16 Jan 2007 at 16:10

My mate has cyclone he uses £40's worth of the stuff in abput 2 weeks. Isn't the reccomended 3x daily serving of cyclone like 80g or something silly! What is in there? it can't be all protein, thats a daft ammount in one sitting, is it all carbs and fat?

My reflex whey lasts me about 2 months (£31), and compared to myprotein I am getting ripped off big time! So cyclone is just a massive rip off.

Also how much creatine is in a serving of cyclone? Are you not supposed to have a month off creatine for every 2 months on it? Is having cyclone permonantly for months not a bad idea because of this?

Basically its a rip off, but if your happy splashing the cash then fair do's I suppose. Next time I wont even waste the (considrably less) money on reflex, straight to my protein for a man sized bag of whey!