*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***

[MikeTheNative]

Fair point.

I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would. Meaning that if he has more muscle mass, they'll use more calories, he'll need to eat more to maintain the mass. If his weight is now going up due to eating a fair bit, then having more muscle mass will use those calories up and his weight will be stable for the amount of calories he's eating just now.

I know what I'm trying to say, just not getting the right words out DOH!!

This is technically true but he's not going to be gaining kg and KG of pure muscle each month. If your on a lean muscle gain, scales will go up pretty slowly.
It's why people tend to bulk (put on muscle and fat ) then cut later on to get rid of the extra fat they have gained from the bulk.

 

[Freefaller]

Also true and a fair point.

I'll take weight training over cardio any day of the week especially as I'm in my 50's. Particularly if that cardio is jogging, cycling or HIIT.

There are also many health benefits to having more muscle mass as you age.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/muscle-mass-strength-and-longevity/

good man, weight training has been proven time and time again to be far more effective, if done properly. A good weight based circuit will burn cals, and if you get your body into the right hormonal state will also focus on fat first, especially with high intensity weight based workouts. Fueling your body the correct way afterwards is also critical.

As you get to your 40+ you need to focus on muscle to help prevent a lot of ailments (it's been proven to help reduce the chances of osteoporosis for example) as you get older, cardio is still important but that can happen without running - you just need to balance it. a HIIT workout is far more effective, and you can do it with weights and even compound movements.

Muscle maintaining is the name of the game as you get older rather than pure building of muscle. Something I've discovered - although someone in the gym rats post did say they wished they looked like me despite them being in their 20s! It's taken 20+ years of good eating and building a base to prevent #dadbod, you have to be committed and you have to make it a lifestyle choice.

However lean muscle gain even in your 20s is a long term thing, it's actually quite hard to do, but in your 40+ with lower testosterone levels, it's going to be nigh on impossible, so you're better off focussing on muscle development, which at 40+ is going to be slow anyway, and focus on good dietary choices.

I think you mentioned it as well a ratio of fat, protein and carbs. Personally, I'm on 40% protein, 30% fats, 30% carbs, that works for me, but I'm also eating 3.5k cals daily My lifestyle choices have meant that I hardly eat poor foods. I literally only eat boringly good foods now, but it's the choice I've made and my blood profile is spot on for my age, and in my opinion I'm in pretty good shape - it does take effort. I don't drink alcohol, or milk, and hardly have any sugary foods. It's not for everyone, but I feel 10 years younger than I am. It's in everyone's gift to do it, but it's not an overnight thing - and that's what people find difficult - the effort, and it's mentally really hard too.

 

[barmyllama]

good man, weight training has been proven time and time again to be far more effective, if done properly. A good weight based circuit will burn cals, and if you get your body into the right hormonal state will also focus on fat first, especially with high intensity weight based workouts. Fueling your body the correct way afterwards is also critical.

As you get to your 40+ you need to focus on muscle to help prevent a lot of ailments (it's been proven to help reduce the chances of osteoporosis for example) as you get older, cardio is still important but that can happen without running - you just need to balance it. a HIIT workout is far more effective, and you can do it with weights and even compound movements.

Muscle maintaining is the name of the game as you get older rather than pure building of muscle. Something I've discovered - although someone in the gym rats post did say they wished they looked like me despite them being in their 20s! It's taken 20+ years of good eating and building a base to prevent #dadbod, you have to be committed and you have to make it a lifestyle choice.

However lean muscle gain even in your 20s is a long term thing, it's actually quite hard to do, but in your 40+ with lower testosterone levels, it's going to be nigh on impossible, so you're better off focussing on muscle development, which at 40+ is going to be slow anyway, and focus on good dietary choices.

I think you mentioned it as well a ratio of fat, protein and carbs. Personally, I'm on 40% protein, 30% fats, 30% carbs, that works for me, but I'm also eating 3.5k cals daily My lifestyle choices have meant that I hardly eat poor foods. I literally only eat boringly good foods now, but it's the choice I've made and my blood profile is spot on for my age, and in my opinion I'm in pretty good shape - it does take effort. I don't drink alcohol, or milk, and hardly have any sugary foods. It's not for everyone, but I feel 10 years younger than I am. It's in everyone's gift to do it, but it's not an overnight thing - and that's what people find difficult - the effort, and it's mentally really hard too.

Yeah my general aim for protein is 40% a day, with 35/25 for carbs and fat. Although they can vary to 30/30 on different days. I also tend to be more lenient on weekends with regards to carbs and fat as long as my overall protein intake for the day is on or over 2g perk kg of bodyweight.

I'll also reduce carbs and fats and increase exercise (more walking) on days I know I'll consume alcohol.

I actually reduced my alcohol level so far this year from 15-25 units a week to less than 10 after dry January.

Currently I'm on 2500 a day after 10 years of 5/2 fasting. I completely stalled on everything after Christmas. Not loosing inches were I wanted and not gaining inches were I should have from training.

To be honest 2500 a day can be a struggle, especially to do it cleanly and maintain macros, hence the protein shakes. Plus the deals I got on various Bulk powders recently, it's cheaper per 25g of protein than chicken breast or tuna.

I do relax my diet on weekends, but nothing silly. A few beers, maybe a takeaway, chocolate, cake etc

As for training.

5 days a week, 45-60 minutes push, pull and legs rotation.

45 minutes walking per day.

Plus I have two apps on my phone for core and total body (basically calisthenics) that I do daily, 12-20 minutes each.

I also decided no scales or tape measure for the whole of March and see how upping my calories and not fasting works out for me.

 

[Freefaller]

Often not measuring for a while is the best thing, and remember it's about how you "feel". That's why I do blood tests and health checks, if the numbers are good then I know what I'm doing is having an impact. If you feel energised and have a good gym session, or a good week's of training and how you feel can have a massive impact.

Allowing yourself to let your hair down is important too - personally I don't drink (not teetotal, just hardly ever drink), but I do allow myself some pleasures / treats over the weekend.

When I stopped training properly for a couple of years, I still struggled to eat less than 3k cals, I find eating really pleasurable and somethin I enjoy doing, but I graze a lot throughout the day (nuts / seeds / fruit / homemade flapjacks etc...). I found that doing intermittent fasting was a good way of calorie controlling as there would only be so much I could fit in my feeding window.

 

[AndyCr15]

What's your current weight?

You may need more than 1800 and still be in a deficit.

Yeah, good point. I'm currently down at 96kg. (Started at 138)

I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would.

I do understand this argument, I guess I feel it's an odd angle to come at it if your main purpose is to lose weight. It's almost like trying to improve your cars mileage by removing the spare tyre from the boot. It's a very small lever when there are much bigger levers to pull. I do totally understand there are many other benefits to lifting though (I went myself this morning, for example).

Some really good and interesting discussion though, nice

 

[subbytna]

I like alternate options and viewpoints. Always good to get different perspectives. Means you pick up titbits of knowledge you may have not known before

 

[barmyllama]

Yeah, good point. I'm currently down at 96kg. (Started at 138)



I do understand this argument, I guess I feel it's an odd angle to come at it if your main purpose is to lose weight. It's almost like trying to improve your cars mileage by removing the spare tyre from the boot. It's a very small lever when there are much bigger levers to pull. I do totally understand there are many other benefits to lifting though (I went myself this morning, for example).

Some really good and interesting discussion though, nice

Use that BMR calculator I linked to.

Even if you're sedentary at 96kg I would guess 1600-1800 calories is too big a deficit to be sustainable.

At the end of the day the best diet for anyone, is the one they can stick to. If cheat days or diet breaks or a smaller daily deficit helps you stick with it then do it. It just means you'll take a little longer to loose what you want to.

 

[AndyCr15]

Even if you're sedentary at 96kg I would guess 1600-1800 calories is too big a deficit to be sustainable.

Agreed. My current target is 2,200 on days with no/low exercise.

 

[subbytna]

Use that BMR calculator I linked to.

Even if you're sedentary at 96kg I would guess 1600-1800 calories is too big a deficit to be sustainable.

At the end of the day the best diet for anyone, is the one they can stick to. If cheat days or diet breaks or a smaller daily deficit helps you stick with it then do it. It just means you'll take a little longer to loose what you want to.

I track calories monday to Friday with my fitness pal

Sat and Sun I eat anddrink what I want, no tracking.

 

[Freefaller]

Ultimately as long as your regime/routine is offering you the results that you want then it must be working. However, plateaus do happen, and that's where different techniques help, i.e. carb cycling, intermittent fasting etc... I use a variation of these to avoid metabolic adaptation.

My current status I posted here: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/35479453

I do want to get a bit leaner I'm 98kg so can afford to lose 5kg at least, but there will be muscle loss in that too unless I train exceptionally hard which I'm not able to (work, kids etc...). It's about managing your mental health / issues that you have with how you look/feel. I know I can run for 5k in 30 mins, I can swim 1km just over 25 mins - but I'm not always happy with how I am.

I think we all have these journeys we're taking, either to lose weight for health, feel better, be fitter, be able to run after the kids, or a feeling of self worth and/or many other reasons. It's hard to "achieve" a goal, as there's always something else that you want to achieve.

It's so important to reward yourself and appreciate that it's not an overnight success, and it takes time - this is something I frustrate myself with as I'm sometimes impulsive and impatient.

 

[arc@css]

When you say you can't maintain it, you mean you keep eating over? To me that seems really low? Especially if you're still gaining weight?! Are you sure it's accurate? Are you weighing portions? Counting everything (you know, milk in tea etc). When I was down at that amount I was losing a stone a month.... (I cycled most days too, but only about 40 minutes)

Yes, after a few days or best-case scenario, two or three weeks, I find myself eating over.
I don't gain weight on that amount, I lose it, though, when I eat over, progress is impeded,
which is why I think it's not enough to maintain for the long term. It's taken me a while to realise.
Yes, all food is weighed out.

You just have swap highly refined foods for lean protein, vegetables, whole grains, berries and nuts and other whole foods.

Generally the brain doesn't know the difference between hunger and thirst. So water can be a good appetite suppressant.

Also try drinking water, black coffee or tea, thirty minutes before you eat. That helps to stop overeating at meals. And don't drink with your meal as it reduces the feeling of fullness.

If you're on a reasonably strict calorie diet, then have a cheat day once a week. Or take diet breaks, were you diet for 4 weeks then eat maintenance calories for a week or two.

You can work out your maintenance calories via a BMR calculator.

I eat practically nothing but whole foods at home and the level of processed food overall is very low.
I didn't realise that part about the brain re hunger and thirst.

I don't drink much of anything when eating as it could affect digestion and I generally feel better for not doing so.
Yes, the suggestion of a cheat day or eating for maintenance is another good idea, I think I've been restricting myself
too much. Cheers for the link to the BMI calc.

Thank you

I started off at 2100 and tracked my food, weighed myself every day and averaged the 7 weights into one weekly weight. Did this for a couple of weeks and watched what the weight was doing. It was staying similar so upped the calories to 2200 a day (frogot to mention that I'm on 40% protein, 30 carbs and 30 fats as my daily food intake macros) I did the same, tracked what I ate and watched the weight...no real change so upped the calories again to 2300. At this point I saw the weight starting to creep up a bit. I used this as the basis to bulk and gain muscle mass. When I start my cut at the end of March, I'll drop the calories down again to beneath 2300 and let the deficit take the fat. I'll watch and see what calorie amount I@ll need to sustain an easier drop in body fat, than crash cutting and not be able to sustain it.

My wife is on more calories than (~1700/1800 ish).

Without coming across as a dork....you're not female are you?

I'd say you need to workout your calories again. Or better still, get a couple of hours personal training and part of that will be nutrition. Any decent PT will be looking at nutrition first, before any workouts.

If you eat a lot of carbs, try and have them before 6pm. After that, your body will have the carb energy and if you don't use that energy from the food, it'll be stored in the body as fat. I train in the evening so after a workout, I have a protein heavy meal like chicken or steak, with minimal carbs.


Proten keeps you feeling fuller, for longer. I'm at 40% of my daily food intake being protein.

If you're in the gym, do compound weight lifting. It'll use more muscle groups and those will burn more calories, than doing isolation exercises only. Squats, benchpress, deadlifts, etc.

***DO NOT MISS OR SKIP LEG DAY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO LOSE WIEGHT***
Yes it's hard but the glutes and quads are two of the biggest muscles in your body. Work them out and they burn much more calories than just biceps and bicep curls. Again, squats and deadlifts will work them both.

No, I'm a bloke. Yep, I'm looking at raising the calories and then, as you did, see how I get on and gradually find the sweet spot.
I don't eat complex carbs in the evening anyway as one of the best things I found that benefits me well is food combining, though once in a blue moon,
I'll make an exception to that if making a homemade curry.

I'm only just starting to up the amount of weight training as I've been pretty much unable to train my upper body for the last four years due to knackering both rotator cuffs.

 

[Syla5]

Hopefully this isn't an overly repeated post, I did a quick search but obviously in a thread like this the results return so much I thought it would be easier to ask.

What scales are recommended for tracking weight. I have a set of etekcity scales that have stopped recording anything but weight and it feels like the accuracy has gone on them. Before they used to be good to 0.05kg but now the jumps between weight bands seems to be more like 0.25-0.35kg.

So recommendations please

 

[Martynt74]

I just have some Xiaomi Smart Scales 2 from Amazon which were £16. I'd love the Garmin ones for the integration, but the thought of spending £130 on some scales doesn't appeal!


Also, ever wondered what happens when you eat a Korean BBQ bake thing, most of an 18" garlic bread and 18" pepperoni pizza from Costco in a single day?

I think MFP puts it around 700 a slice for the pizza/garlic bread and i ate around 8 slices. The Korean bake thing was around 600 and previously in the day i'd had a grilled cheese and a few beers. Then finished off with wine.
It was a good day

 

[Alice In Wonderland]

Ultimately as long as your regime/routine is offering you the results that you want then it must be working. However, plateaus do happen, and that's where different techniques help, i.e. carb cycling, intermittent fasting etc... I use a variation of these to avoid metabolic adaptation.

My current status I posted here: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/35479453

I do want to get a bit leaner I'm 98kg so can afford to lose 5kg at least, but there will be muscle loss in that too unless I train exceptionally hard which I'm not able to (work, kids etc...). It's about managing your mental health / issues that you have with how you look/feel. I know I can run for 5k in 30 mins, I can swim 1km just over 25 mins - but I'm not always happy with how I am.

I think we all have these journeys we're taking, either to lose weight for health, feel better, be fitter, be able to run after the kids, or a feeling of self worth and/or many other reasons. It's hard to "achieve" a goal, as there's always something else that you want to achieve.

It's so important to reward yourself and appreciate that it's not an overnight success, and it takes time - this is something I frustrate myself with as I'm sometimes impulsive and impatient.

Not quite sure how I missed your updated picture of yourself!!

Definitely very fine and fit indeed.

 

[Freefaller]

Hopefully this isn't an overly repeated post, I did a quick search but obviously in a thread like this the results return so much I thought it would be easier to ask.

What scales are recommended for tracking weight. I have a set of etekcity scales that have stopped recording anything but weight and it feels like the accuracy has gone on them. Before they used to be good to 0.05kg but now the jumps between weight bands seems to be more like 0.25-0.35kg.

So recommendations please

As I'm sure you know weight tracking doesn't give the whole picture - but it can give you an indication.

I personally use some workout tracking aps which sync to google fit - I then often enter my details into there so I can get yearly/monthly trends.



That's what my "smart" scales tell me, apparently my bodyfat is 27%... which it isn't and my muscle mass is 38%... which it isn't! So just be wary of those numbers.

I think if you use that with tracking apps for workouts like I do (yes you have to pay for them) then they can link everything together.

Plus you get nice charts like this:

Not quite sure how I missed your updated picture of yourself!!

Definitely very fine and fit indeed.

I've been at this for a few decades - but I let myself go after the kids were born focussing on career and not looking after myself as much - I've picked up the pace a little and the effort. I'll never be "skinny" nor would I want to. However, I've struggled with being happy with not only my gym performance but my general fitness. The last 3 years I have managed to transform myself back to where I wanted to be, but with some work yet to be done. This thread, and although I have posted ina while, have been super helpful for me to realise that this is a challenge a lot of people face. Some people say, you look great shut up, stop seeking attention, however what people see and what I feel in my head/mind are 2 different things entirely. But people like Subby and Andy and others have shown me that actually as long as you're progressing that you shouldn't feel you're seeking attention, after all we all have different goals and perceptions.

I do want to lose a little bit of weight (99kg this morning) which I know I can do, I just need to realise it's ok to be slim - ******** all over the place though. I guess that's what dozens of years playing rugby with tanks does to you.

 

[Syla5]

As I'm sure you know weight tracking doesn't give the whole picture - but it can give you an indication.

I personally use some workout tracking aps which sync to google fit - I then often enter my details into there so I can get yearly/monthly trends.


That's what my "smart" scales tell me, apparently my bodyfat is 27%... which it isn't and my muscle mass is 38%... which it isn't! So just be wary of those numbers.

I think if you use that with tracking apps for workouts like I do (yes you have to pay for them) then they can link everything together.

Plus you get nice charts like this:

Ha, yeah, I only like the extra metrics due to my nerdy data analyst brain. It also bugs me that when my scales only record the weight and then the app tells me its only recording the weight and to try again.

In terms of progress tracking, I don't only use weight as an indication, I know how important the mirror and other metrics are. however I'm pretty sure these current scales are at the end of their useful life and I would rather a more consistent set. Also I seem to have a very tight tolerance on calories before going from losing weight to gaining weight and a more accurate set of scales would help reduce some variance noise that isn't needed.

I plan to make a little more of a detailed post in here soonish when I've reached a milestone I'm happy with, or in the gym rats thread.

In terms of tracking apps, I've really not found one that I like the process of using, I guess there's nothing quite like the pen and note pad for me...although this is something I am exploring, I don't think I will ever pay for one when I know I could just spend some time building a google sheet which I can update from my phone anyway.

 

[AndyCr15]

But people like Subby and Andy and others have shown me that actually as long as you're progressing that you shouldn't feel you're seeking attention, after all we all have different goals and perceptions.

That's nice to read. I'm glad this thread helps

 

[Freefaller]

That's nice to read. I'm glad this thread helps

We're all on different stages of our journeys and ultimately there are many roads to take us to where we want to go. It's just nice to see what is achievable, even if I or others may seem to be ahead we're all doing our bits to improve our lives and this thread is a great way of sharing ideas, supporting one another etc.

 

[subbytna]

A saying I heard years ago made me think and it's so true.

We're all on the same book, some of us are just at different pages.

 

[Syla5]

I was hoping to hold off any kind of write up until I was further in to my journey but I'm seeking advise now so I guess more info will help.

Diet dilemma, I'm up to 12.5 weeks in now and the weight/fat is still dropping, however I'm starting to feel the build up of diet fatigue. I've seen advice that 12 weeks is a good first phase and that I should be looking to switch to a maintenance phase before recommencing another fat loss phase.

Some stats:

• Height: 5'7"
• Start weight: 171lb / 77.9kg / 12st 3.7lb
• BMR: 1650
• Activity adjusted Maintenance cals: 2250-2350
• Average Calories: 1850 (400-500 daily deficit)
• Start date: 13th December 21
• Current weight: 159lb / 72.15kg / 11st 5lb
• Target weight: 145lb / 65.77kg / 10st 5lb (this goal is to allow for a 2-3% rebound to my actual desired weight once i get back to maintenance)

I started the diet out and also started training again, I've been consistent and done 4 weight sessions per week since the start, except for 1 week where I got COVID in the last week of 2021. Since the 14th Jan I added in daily walking and actively aimed to up my daily step count, now hitting a minimum of 8k steps per day, so 8 weeks of my 12 have included this walking.

I have maintained a very stable calorie level and macro breakdown during this period averaging 1850 cals per day from the start. My calculated BMR is 1650 and accounting for activity my maintenance cals should be 2300, so I've been in a rough daily deficit of ~450cals. my concern about dropping cals further is I'm going to drop below my BMR which just doesn't seem logical to me?!

Depending on how i view it I'm about 30-40% of the way to my goal weight, before I wanted to start a maintenance / bulk phase again.

Im starting to feel a bit of a build up in what I believe is diet fatigue though, recovery from workouts is a little slower and while I'm feeling good, I'm not definitely not feeling fresh, hence this post.


So my options / questions are:

• Should I actually see my diet as more like 8 weeks in then 12 weeks as prior to walking daily my maintenance level might have been a little high and my deficit smaller then I thought?
• Drop cals further and push for a few more weeks, but still not hit my goal weight?
• Shift to a maintenance phase of at least 6-8 weeks before going back on to a diet phase again?
• Keep going at current calorie amounts, maybe have a re-feed day or two at maintenance to help combat the diet fatigue?