*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***

@subbytna

Very well done, that is impressive. :)

Out of interest, how did you arrive at ~2300 calories per day? Was it just experimentation or something more tried and tested, e.g. a nutrition/diet website?

I'm finding that over the last year or so, the weight is gradually going up, and even though a vast majority of my intake is whole foods, I just don't seem to be able to maintain the number of calories that I've read I'm supposed to work with (~1700/1800 ish).

I'm fine some/most of the time with that but every now and then (sometimes weekly), I just get so hungry - particularly late at night. I guess something is telling me that the target I set myself isn't realistic over the longer term.
 
If you're getting hungry sometimes it's your brain misinterpreting triggers. Drinking water can be helpful.

Protein rich foods also take longer to digest, so think about fibre and protein rich dinner rather than carb bases.

I can't speak for Sub but most strategies involve lowering daily calories by a small amount c.100-200, and running with that for a week, measure, reassess and tweak. Taking too large calorie deficit will trigger cravings and hunger pangs. Also near in mind that we are cyclical beings so if we always eat at 1200 you'll start to naturally feel hungry at 1200. Another strategy is to break up your rhythm for food by having 1-2 extra meals a day but much smaller meals to "trick" your metabolism.

Just my opinion, hope you don't mind me airing my thoughts!
 
Freefaller said:
If you're getting hungry sometimes it's your brain misinterpreting triggers. Drinking water can be helpful.

Protein rich foods also take longer to digest, so think about fibre and protein rich dinner rather than carb bases.

I can't speak for Sub but most strategies involve lowering daily calories by a small amount c.100-200, and running with that for a week, measure, reassess and tweak. Taking too large calorie deficit will trigger cravings and hunger pangs. Also near in mind that we are cyclical beings so if we always eat at 1200 you'll start to naturally feel hungry at 1200. Another strategy is to break up your rhythm for food by having 1-2 extra meals a day but much smaller meals to "trick" your metabolism.

Just my opinion, hope you don't mind me airing my thoughts!
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Thanks for the input, the more the merrier, much appreciated. :)
 
arc@css said:
I just don't seem to be able to maintain the number of calories that I've read I'm supposed to work with (~1700/1800 ish).
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When you say you can't maintain it, you mean you keep eating over? To me that seems really low? Especially if you're still gaining weight?! Are you sure it's accurate? Are you weighing portions? Counting everything (you know, milk in tea etc). When I was down at that amount I was losing a stone a month.... (I cycled most days too, but only about 40 minutes)
 
arc@css said:
@subbytna

Very well done, that is impressive. :)

Out of interest, how did you arrive at ~2300 calories per day? Was it just experimentation or something more tried and tested, e.g. a nutrition/diet website?

I'm finding that over the last year or so, the weight is gradually going up, and even though a vast majority of my intake is whole foods, I just don't seem to be able to maintain the number of calories that I've read I'm supposed to work with (~1700/1800 ish).

I'm fine some/most of the time with that but every now and then (sometimes weekly), I just get so hungry - particularly late at night. I guess something is telling me that the target I set myself isn't realistic over the longer term.
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I can fill my face with food for 1800 calories a day.

You just have swap highly refined foods for lean protein, vegetables, whole grains, berries and nuts and other whole foods.

I also batch cooked stews, casseroles and chillis which can easily be prepared for less than 500 calories a portion.

Typical double breakfast for me, generally 2-3 hours apart. Depending on when I get up.

Porridge oats (40g) 300ml skimmed milk, tbsp maple syrup. Or a protein shake (30g scoop 300ml skimmed milk)

300/ 220 calories

250g 0% fat Greek yogurt. Mixed with 20g oats, 40g berries, 15g pomegranate seeds, 7g walnuts, 7g cacoa nibs, half tbsp maple syrup.

365 calories

Lunch

Two slices super seeded bread, 1 can tuna in spring water or salmon or steamed chicken breast, tbsp low fat mayonnaise, a piece of fruit (typically a kiwi including the skin), 10 almonds,

560 calories

Dinner

Homemade lean (3% fat) turkey mince chilli, baby spinach, 125g cooked brown rice.

550 calories

Total for the day 1775 calories.

125g protein, 187g carbs, 47g fat

Also covers 100% of recommended daily intake of vitamin A, C, fibre and calcium.

Normally I'd take the protein shake over the porridge, but the porridge is more filling. Or I'd have 4 scrambled eggs instead of porridge or the protein shake. I'd probably have another protein shake after a gym session, which would add another 120 calories.

If you're more hungry in the evening then just have breakfast later in the day and drink water when you first get up. Generally the brain doesn't know the difference between hunger and thirst. So water can be a good appetite suppressant.

Also try drinking water, black coffee or tea, thirty minutes before you eat. That helps to stop overeating at meals. And don't drink with your meal as it reduces the feeling of fullness.

If you're on a reasonably strict calorie diet, then have a cheat day once a week. Or take diet breaks, were you diet for 4 weeks then eat maintenance calories for a week or two.

You can work out your maintenance calories via a BMR calculator.

https://www.calculator.net/bmr-calculator.html
 
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Yeah... I don't think I could last eating just that :( I would be super hungry later on in the day... I'm sure a lot of the hunger thing is psychological, but it's still not nice and makes it hard for me to sleep too...
 
AndyCr15 said:
Yeah... I don't think I could last eating just that :( I would be super hungry later on in the day... I'm sure a lot of the hunger thing is psychological, but it's still not nice and makes it hard for me to sleep too...
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What's your current weight? If you don't mind me asking. I'm 72kg, so 1800 calories for me is still only around 75% or maintenance calories of 2500. That's what I'm eating now, or trying to at least.

I was just illustrating that you can eat very well and feel full most of the time if you eat the right foods.

You may need more than 1800 and still be in a deficit.

Diet breaks do help a lot.
 
arc@css said:
@subbytna

Very well done, that is impressive. :)

Out of interest, how did you arrive at ~2300 calories per day? Was it just experimentation or something more tried and tested, e.g. a nutrition/diet website?

I'm finding that over the last year or so, the weight is gradually going up, and even though a vast majority of my intake is whole foods, I just don't seem to be able to maintain the number of calories that I've read I'm supposed to work with (~1700/1800 ish).

I'm fine some/most of the time with that but every now and then (sometimes weekly), I just get so hungry - particularly late at night. I guess something is telling me that the target I set myself isn't realistic over the longer term.
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Thank you

I started off at 2100 and tracked my food, weighed myself every day and averaged the 7 weights into one weekly weight. Did this for a couple of weeks and watched what the weight was doing. It was staying similar so upped the calories to 2200 a day (frogot to mention that I'm on 40% protein, 30 carbs and 30 fats as my daily food intake macros) I did the same, tracked what I ate and watched the weight...no real change so upped the calories again to 2300. At this point I saw the weight starting to creep up a bit. I used this as the basis to bulk and gain muscle mass. When I start my cut at the end of March, I'll drop the calories down again to beneath 2300 and let the deficit take the fat. I'll watch and see what calorie amount I@ll need to sustain an easier drop in body fat, than crash cutting and not be able to sustain it.
 
arc@css said:
@subbytna

Very well done, that is impressive. :)

Out of interest, how did you arrive at ~2300 calories per day? Was it just experimentation or something more tried and tested, e.g. a nutrition/diet website?

I'm finding that over the last year or so, the weight is gradually going up, and even though a vast majority of my intake is whole foods, I just don't seem to be able to maintain the number of calories that I've read I'm supposed to work with (~1700/1800 ish).

I'm fine some/most of the time with that but every now and then (sometimes weekly), I just get so hungry - particularly late at night. I guess something is telling me that the target I set myself isn't realistic over the longer term.
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My wife is on more calories than (~1700/1800 ish). :eek:

Without coming across as a dork....you're not female are you?

I'd say you need to workout your calories again. Or better still, get a couple of hours personal training and part of that will be nutrition. Any decent PT will be looking at nutrition first, before any workouts.

If you eat a lot of carbs, try and have them before 6pm. After that, your body will have the carb energy and if you don't use that energy from the food, it'll be stored in the body as fat. I train in the evening so after a workout, I have a protein heavy meal like chicken or steak, with minimal carbs.


Proten keeps you feeling fuller, for longer. I'm at 40% of my daily food intake being protein.

If you're in the gym, do compound weight lifting. It'll use more muscle groups and those will burn more calories, than doing isolation exercises only. Squats, benchpress, deadlifts, etc.

***DO NOT MISS OR SKIP LEG DAY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO LOSE WIEGHT***
Yes it's hard but the glutes and quads are two of the biggest muscles in your body. Work them out and they burn much more calories than just biceps and bicep curls. Again, squats and deadlifts will work them both.
 
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subbytna said:
My wife is on more calories than (~1700/1800 ish). :eek:

Without coming across as a dork....you're not female are you? I'd say you need to workout your calories again. Or better still, get a couple of hours personal training and part of that will be nutrition. Any decent PT will be looking at nutrition first, before any workouts.

If you eat a lot of carbs, try and have them before 6pm. After that, your body will have the carb energy and if you don't use that energy from the food, it'll be stored in the body as fat. I train in the evening so after a workout, I have a protein heavy meal like chicken or steak, with minimal carbs.


Proten keeps you feeling fuller, for longer. I'm at 40% of my daily food intake, is protien.

If yo'ure in the gym, do compound weight lifting. It'll use more muscle groups and those will burn more calories, than doing isolation exercises only. Squats, benchpress, deadlifts, etc.

***DO NOT MISS OR SKIP LEG DAY IF YOU'RE TRYING TO LOSE WIEGHT***
Yes it's hard but the glutes and quads are two of the biggest muscles in your body. Work them out and they burn much more calories than just biceps and bicep curls. Again, squats and deadlifts will work them both.
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All things I'd agree with.

Although I would caveat that if burning calories is your goal and not building muscle, then walking would burn more calories per hour than weigh lifting. Typically I burn around 300-400 calories in the gym per hour, whether it's, legs, push or pull.

My morning walks with my wife (4.5km in 45 minutes, burns 300) a 60 minute walk on my own burns 500.

Did legs yesterday.
 
Fair point.

I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would. Meaning that if he has more muscle mass, they'll use more calories, he'll need to eat more to maintain the mass. If his weight is now going up due to eating a fair bit, then having more muscle mass will use those calories up and his weight will be stable for the amount of calories he's eating just now.

I know what I'm trying to say, just not getting the right words out DOH!! :D
 
subbytna said:
Fair point.

I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would. Meaning that if he has more muscle mass, they'll use more calories, he'll need to eat more to maintain the mass. If his weight is now going up due to eating a fair bit, then having more muscle mass will use those calories up and his weight will be stable for the amount of calories he's eating just now.

I know what I'm trying to say, just not getting the right words out DOH!! :D
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Also true and a fair point.

I'll take weight training over cardio any day of the week especially as I'm in my 50's. Particularly if that cardio is jogging, cycling or HIIT.

There are also many health benefits to having more muscle mass as you age.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/muscle-mass-strength-and-longevity/
 
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subbytna said:
Fair point.

I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would. Meaning that if he has more muscle mass, they'll use more calories, he'll need to eat more to maintain the mass. If his weight is now going up due to eating a fair bit, then having more muscle mass will use those calories up and his weight will be stable for the amount of calories he's eating just now.

I know what I'm trying to say, just not getting the right words out DOH!! :D
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This is technically true but he's not going to be gaining kg and KG of pure muscle each month. If your on a lean muscle gain, scales will go up pretty slowly.
It's why people tend to bulk (put on muscle and fat ) then cut later on to get rid of the extra fat they have gained from the bulk.
 
barmyllama said:
Also true and a fair point.

I'll take weight training over cardio any day of the week especially as I'm in my 50's. Particularly if that cardio is jogging, cycling or HIIT.

There are also many health benefits to having more muscle mass as you age.

https://www.howardluksmd.com/muscle-mass-strength-and-longevity/
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good man, weight training has been proven time and time again to be far more effective, if done properly. A good weight based circuit will burn cals, and if you get your body into the right hormonal state will also focus on fat first, especially with high intensity weight based workouts. Fueling your body the correct way afterwards is also critical.

As you get to your 40+ you need to focus on muscle to help prevent a lot of ailments (it's been proven to help reduce the chances of osteoporosis for example) as you get older, cardio is still important but that can happen without running - you just need to balance it. a HIIT workout is far more effective, and you can do it with weights and even compound movements.

Muscle maintaining is the name of the game as you get older rather than pure building of muscle. Something I've discovered - although someone in the gym rats post did say they wished they looked like me despite them being in their 20s! :o It's taken 20+ years of good eating and building a base to prevent #dadbod, you have to be committed and you have to make it a lifestyle choice.

However lean muscle gain even in your 20s is a long term thing, it's actually quite hard to do, but in your 40+ with lower testosterone levels, it's going to be nigh on impossible, so you're better off focussing on muscle development, which at 40+ is going to be slow anyway, and focus on good dietary choices.

I think you mentioned it as well a ratio of fat, protein and carbs. Personally, I'm on 40% protein, 30% fats, 30% carbs, that works for me, but I'm also eating 3.5k cals daily :) My lifestyle choices have meant that I hardly eat poor foods. I literally only eat boringly good foods now, but it's the choice I've made and my blood profile is spot on for my age, and in my opinion I'm in pretty good shape - it does take effort. I don't drink alcohol, or milk, and hardly have any sugary foods. It's not for everyone, but I feel 10 years younger than I am. :) It's in everyone's gift to do it, but it's not an overnight thing - and that's what people find difficult - the effort, and it's mentally really hard too.
 
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Freefaller said:
good man, weight training has been proven time and time again to be far more effective, if done properly. A good weight based circuit will burn cals, and if you get your body into the right hormonal state will also focus on fat first, especially with high intensity weight based workouts. Fueling your body the correct way afterwards is also critical.

As you get to your 40+ you need to focus on muscle to help prevent a lot of ailments (it's been proven to help reduce the chances of osteoporosis for example) as you get older, cardio is still important but that can happen without running - you just need to balance it. a HIIT workout is far more effective, and you can do it with weights and even compound movements.

Muscle maintaining is the name of the game as you get older rather than pure building of muscle. Something I've discovered - although someone in the gym rats post did say they wished they looked like me despite them being in their 20s! :o It's taken 20+ years of good eating and building a base to prevent #dadbod, you have to be committed and you have to make it a lifestyle choice.

However lean muscle gain even in your 20s is a long term thing, it's actually quite hard to do, but in your 40+ with lower testosterone levels, it's going to be nigh on impossible, so you're better off focussing on muscle development, which at 40+ is going to be slow anyway, and focus on good dietary choices.

I think you mentioned it as well a ratio of fat, protein and carbs. Personally, I'm on 40% protein, 30% fats, 30% carbs, that works for me, but I'm also eating 3.5k cals daily :) My lifestyle choices have meant that I hardly eat poor foods. I literally only eat boringly good foods now, but it's the choice I've made and my blood profile is spot on for my age, and in my opinion I'm in pretty good shape - it does take effort. I don't drink alcohol, or milk, and hardly have any sugary foods. It's not for everyone, but I feel 10 years younger than I am. :) It's in everyone's gift to do it, but it's not an overnight thing - and that's what people find difficult - the effort, and it's mentally really hard too.
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Yeah my general aim for protein is 40% a day, with 35/25 for carbs and fat. Although they can vary to 30/30 on different days. I also tend to be more lenient on weekends with regards to carbs and fat as long as my overall protein intake for the day is on or over 2g perk kg of bodyweight.

I'll also reduce carbs and fats and increase exercise (more walking) on days I know I'll consume alcohol.

I actually reduced my alcohol level so far this year from 15-25 units a week to less than 10 after dry January.

Currently I'm on 2500 a day after 10 years of 5/2 fasting. I completely stalled on everything after Christmas. Not loosing inches were I wanted and not gaining inches were I should have from training.

To be honest 2500 a day can be a struggle, especially to do it cleanly and maintain macros, hence the protein shakes. Plus the deals I got on various Bulk powders recently, it's cheaper per 25g of protein than chicken breast or tuna.

I do relax my diet on weekends, but nothing silly. A few beers, maybe a takeaway, chocolate, cake etc

As for training.

5 days a week, 45-60 minutes push, pull and legs rotation.

45 minutes walking per day.

Plus I have two apps on my phone for core and total body (basically calisthenics) that I do daily, 12-20 minutes each.

I also decided no scales or tape measure for the whole of March and see how upping my calories and not fasting works out for me.
 
Often not measuring for a while is the best thing, and remember it's about how you "feel". That's why I do blood tests and health checks, if the numbers are good then I know what I'm doing is having an impact. If you feel energised and have a good gym session, or a good week's of training and how you feel can have a massive impact.

Allowing yourself to let your hair down is important too - personally I don't drink (not teetotal, just hardly ever drink), but I do allow myself some pleasures / treats over the weekend.

When I stopped training properly for a couple of years, I still struggled to eat less than 3k cals, I find eating really pleasurable and somethin I enjoy doing, but I graze a lot throughout the day (nuts / seeds / fruit / homemade flapjacks etc...). I found that doing intermittent fasting was a good way of calorie controlling as there would only be so much I could fit in my feeding window.
 
barmyllama said:
What's your current weight?

You may need more than 1800 and still be in a deficit.
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Yeah, good point. I'm currently down at 96kg. (Started at 138)

subbytna said:
I'm looking at it from a view if he puts on muscle, that new muscle will require more calories to maintain, than less muscle mass would.
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I do understand this argument, I guess I feel it's an odd angle to come at it if your main purpose is to lose weight. It's almost like trying to improve your cars mileage by removing the spare tyre from the boot. It's a very small lever when there are much bigger levers to pull. I do totally understand there are many other benefits to lifting though (I went myself this morning, for example).

Some really good and interesting discussion though, nice :)
 
I like alternate options and viewpoints. Always good to get different perspectives. Means you pick up titbits of knowledge you may have not known before :)
 
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