*** Big Fat Weight Loss Thread ***
- Thread starter AndyCr15
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I'm guessing, losing weight isn't your only objective though or you would be doing cardio instead of lifting? So, I personally would probably stick at what you're doing. I would be worried about losing muscle mass if you go for a bigger deficit. As asked above, do you have the occasional day where you go a few more cals? I like to, maybe once a week, have a day where I see myself as filling up the tank again. I'm no expert though, just my thoughts 
In terms of weight loss I was under the impression that lifting is actually a very good tool for it! You are correct, my goals are not just losing weight, but my focus at the start of my 2022 journey is to get rid of as much of the excess fat, and get down to a true baseline where i want to start from, before trying to actively gain.
I would much rather sit in the 150-155lb range then where i have been which is the 170-175lb range.
I would much rather sit in the 150-155lb range then where i have been which is the 170-175lb range.
I think it's an interesting discussion, I would love to see a study on it if it's taken place. I think (as stated recently in this thread) the logic is bigger muscles take more calories to maintain, so you burn more day to day. Personally, it seems a rather roundabout way to do it. For purely losing weight, I can't believe an hour lifting is as beneficial as an hour on the indoor cycle trainer on an intense workout. Throw in the added fitness gains from cycling (or running) and it just seems to make sense to me. It's also great that, again personally, I can cycle for 4 or 5 hours and really enjoy it at the same time as burning up to 3,000 calories in a morning.
For the record, I lift too, once or twice a week, but for losing weight I think cardio is the faster way to go.
I'd plan in a decent off plan/cheat meal whatever you want to call it once a week, something that gets your weight to jump up a couple of lbs the next day refilling your glycogen stores and giving you that mental break.
I've been losing for almost exactly 6 months now and "only" lost 20ish lbs so roughly 1lb a week but I've also at no point felt like I was hitting a brick wall, slow and steady is the name of the game unless you're so heavy you're liable to drop dead at any moment.
There is plenty of comparison's and study's out there that support that weight training is very good for fat/weight loss. Its not just about building muscle which burns more calories, the workouts themselves are just as intensive as a cardio session if you want them to be. In terms of fitness benefits you still gain them from weight training, not as directed for sure, less endurance benefits, more intensity benefits.
My daily walking is a sufficient amount of cardio for me, a 45 minute power walk each day I'm happy with. I am keeping HiiT in my back pocket if things really start to stagnat in the weight loss department but that hasnt happened yet.
Ive had quite a few cheat meals along the way ive just made sure they make up my daily allowances. Ive not hit a brick wall as such, just an ever increasing sense of fatigue. I guess what you're suggesting is actually go over my calorie limit / a planned refeed every so often rather than account for my cheat meals within my calorie limit?
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Re: weight training, if all things are equal, in terms of calories, etc.. the more lean muscle mass = higher BMR. That's just basic biology. That said, increasing muscle mass for it to be significant, is not going to be significant, and will take a while. However over a period of 6 months you could increase lean muscle mass by up to 1kg with a fairly strict regimen. A high intense weights workout will spike your metabolism higher than steady state cardio for the same period of time.
Someone who is 1m75 who is 70kg and has more lean muscle mass than someone who is 1m75 and also 70kg will have a higher BMR - you need to keep those muscles fuelled, it's a bit ironic that more muscle requires more energy (i.e. calories) to maintain.
Fatigue also comes to boredom / routine of a diet, workout etc... variety is critical to keep your body from adaptation. Daily 30min reasonably fast paced walking is fine if it is supplemented with a workout. However as mentioend to really target fat yo need to peak your metabolic rate and ensure you refuel sensibly.
Someone who is 1m75 who is 70kg and has more lean muscle mass than someone who is 1m75 and also 70kg will have a higher BMR - you need to keep those muscles fuelled, it's a bit ironic that more muscle requires more energy (i.e. calories) to maintain.
Fatigue also comes to boredom / routine of a diet, workout etc... variety is critical to keep your body from adaptation. Daily 30min reasonably fast paced walking is fine if it is supplemented with a workout. However as mentioend to really target fat yo need to peak your metabolic rate and ensure you refuel sensibly.
Correct don't try and shoe horn it into your normal allowance, obviously don't go mental and inhale your full weekly deficit but don't particularly worry about it either.
I've found that really helps keep my head screwed on, deficit 6 days out of 7 and then it gives me that one day to go out for food, get a dirty takeaway or just have a nice big home cooked meal with the family.
In terms of my mental state I am not close to a limit or a breaking point, i feel i can keep going with what I currently do comfortably, the fatigue side of things is definitely on the physical side right now.
Im thinking a re-feed meal might just be in order this weekend.
Im thinking a re-feed meal might just be in order this weekend.
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@Syla5
Personally I'd try a diet break and going back to maintenance calories.
Last summer I set myself a target of 70kg from about 74kg, just for holidays. I upped my gym work to 7 days a week from 4-5 and added around 40-60 minutes walking per day. Lost a couple of kilos but didn't get to 70kg.
Same after Christmas. Lost the holiday fat during January, with diet and weights. Then basically plateaued through February, despite adding in walking and calisthenics core exercises daily.
So for March I'm eating maintenance calories and not getting on the scales or measuring myself.
I have to say I don't think I've gained any weight judging by my clothes fit, may have even lost a couple of inches. I'd also say I have far more energy during weight training sessions, than at anytime in the last six months.
Although I say I'm eating maintenance calories, some days I just can't get there, without ditching my macros. But weekends are more relaxed and so I generally go over maintenance and stay chilled out over the macros. But still eat the required protein for the day.
Personally I'd try a diet break and going back to maintenance calories.
Last summer I set myself a target of 70kg from about 74kg, just for holidays. I upped my gym work to 7 days a week from 4-5 and added around 40-60 minutes walking per day. Lost a couple of kilos but didn't get to 70kg.
Same after Christmas. Lost the holiday fat during January, with diet and weights. Then basically plateaued through February, despite adding in walking and calisthenics core exercises daily.
So for March I'm eating maintenance calories and not getting on the scales or measuring myself.
I have to say I don't think I've gained any weight judging by my clothes fit, may have even lost a couple of inches. I'd also say I have far more energy during weight training sessions, than at anytime in the last six months.
Although I say I'm eating maintenance calories, some days I just can't get there, without ditching my macros. But weekends are more relaxed and so I generally go over maintenance and stay chilled out over the macros. But still eat the required protein for the day.
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It works on both the mental and physical levels. If I'm really pushing in the week then by Friday I can feel everything is much harder. Off plan meal on Saturday and I'm firing on all cylinders again for the next week.
They can be, because you can put as much effort into either. I would be surprised to see someone maintain a heart rate average of 160 bpm for an hour lifting though, but it happens often cycling. I think I watched a video saying effectively you breath out the the weight loss?! Is it the CO2 that is a by product of the muscle that gets breather out? They talked about generally the faster you're breathing, the better it is for weight loss. Does that make sense? Does anyone know the science of it to confirm or deny it? I would say I definitely don't see people breathing as hard lifting weights as I do cycling.
That's interesting. I assume though, that a high intensity cardio session will do it equally as well, if not more so?
(Again, I'm not against lifting, I've been lifting for 30+ years, but I didn't lose weight until I started cycling 3 years ago)
I get this and agree with this. I just wonder it's not so simple. For example, I used to weigh over 21 stone. I didn't move much because it was so tiring! So how does a sedentary big guy compare to an active smaller guy? I would guess the smaller guy would burn more? When I started cycling, even as I came down through the 19 and 18 stone mark, I just couldn't cycle as far as I can now as I was not fit enough to move that much weight up and down hills. So, yes, I would burn more for the same exercise, but that exercise was quite limited.
I'm probably mis-remembering this so apologies in advance but I believe with weight training there is a period of 'afterburn' for up to 24 hours where calorie burn is elevated? Not sure how impactful it actually is in real world terms though.
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@AndyCr15 no you're right - there's also a heavy hormonal influence on it, and dietary considerations.. i.e. certain dietary choices based your insulin response will have a significant impact. i.e. someone who has little / low insulin resistance will have a different response to exercise and glycogen adaptation to someone that doesn't. In addition weight training does improve insulin response (i.e. improves insulin sensitivity) via glycogenesis cycle - but this are small cuts, but enough small cuts end up in having an impact if you add them all together with the other elements of dietary regulation as well as lifestyle adaptation - all the things you're doing are having that compounded impact.
However, your body adapts, it likes the path of least resistance, which is why it's always good to review every few months to see if the impact is still helping.
As for your weight loss, you're probably cycling more than lifting in terms of time under exercsion and cycling isn't always steady state, you will have to go up hills, accelerate decelerate etc, so it's a bit more dynamic. That said, cycling + some good weight lifting programmes are ideal. I've been doing a lot of swimming (easier on my poor knees that get punished through 2.5x bodyweight squats!
)
Do you need weights to lose weight? No not at all. Is it advisable? Yes - not only for bone strengthening, but the hormonal response and building muscle tissue which ultimately helps to increase your metabolic capacity. However it isn't needed at all. See it as a catalyst, or a synergistic activity to go along side a good diet. Diet is key, as is sleep and lifestyle choices.
A sedentary big guy who is not doing anything other than living, may well burn similar calories to the whippet that is super active - but it does depend on numerous factors, and the sedentary guy will get to a stage where their muscle mass will drop to a point where their testosterone drops and therefore their oestrogen rises which makes them less anabolic = less muscle retained and therefore metabolic rate will lower despite their size. I'm eating around 3.3-3.5k calories daily, and I'm not losing / gaining weight, but I walk for 30+ minutes every day, and train 4x week and swim twice a week, I'm also relatively muscle dense and relatively lean (for my age and height) so I'm naturally burning a lot of calories just by existing.
However, your body adapts, it likes the path of least resistance, which is why it's always good to review every few months to see if the impact is still helping.
As for your weight loss, you're probably cycling more than lifting in terms of time under exercsion and cycling isn't always steady state, you will have to go up hills, accelerate decelerate etc, so it's a bit more dynamic. That said, cycling + some good weight lifting programmes are ideal. I've been doing a lot of swimming (easier on my poor knees that get punished through 2.5x bodyweight squats!
)Do you need weights to lose weight? No not at all. Is it advisable? Yes - not only for bone strengthening, but the hormonal response and building muscle tissue which ultimately helps to increase your metabolic capacity. However it isn't needed at all. See it as a catalyst, or a synergistic activity to go along side a good diet. Diet is key, as is sleep and lifestyle choices.
A sedentary big guy who is not doing anything other than living, may well burn similar calories to the whippet that is super active - but it does depend on numerous factors, and the sedentary guy will get to a stage where their muscle mass will drop to a point where their testosterone drops and therefore their oestrogen rises which makes them less anabolic = less muscle retained and therefore metabolic rate will lower despite their size. I'm eating around 3.3-3.5k calories daily, and I'm not losing / gaining weight, but I walk for 30+ minutes every day, and train 4x week and swim twice a week, I'm also relatively muscle dense and relatively lean (for my age and height) so I'm naturally burning a lot of calories just by existing.
I can easily end a lifting session flat on my back heavy breathing. A maintained 160bpm doesn't tell the full story of how effective one type of exercise is vs another at a given goal.
To be overly basic about it, weight loss only happens when in a calorie deficit, it maybe that the relative cycling for you allowed that deficit to happen more easily then weight training did. However for personal goals my desire to build muscle and drop fat (maybe not both at the same time but longer term), copious amounts of cardio would be counter intuitive, for me.
This time around I am following IF. I am fasting 4-5 days per week for a minimum 16hours, aiming more for 18. Generally I get my walk in as well before I break my fast.
While I get the understanding of the benefits of it, I don't know if its quite working for me, bottom line is a calorie deficit is needed and I understand that from a general approach IF is supposed to help people skip meals on fasting days, well for me I have my allotted food, still eating to my calorie deficit, just in less time of the day on my fasting days!
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Maybe exploring carb cycling could be interesting as that does have a good interaction with insulin response etc... Again it's a PITA to set up and monitor, but can become quite instinctive after a while.
I think your average heart rate is probably a better indicator than a snapshot at the end of your workout when the given goal is to purely lose weight, surely? (Which is the goal I was discussing)
Yes, exactly, which is why I said I assumed you weren't just looking to lose weight
One thing I've heard a few times is if you cycle a lot, you should try and have a run now and then as it helps with muscle and bone density. I hate running, but with this in mind, I do try and run now and then...
As with some of the reasoning above around lifting weights and varying your input and output to your body, I think exercising in different ways is the best way to go for overall health. I just think if someone said 'you need to lose 3kg in 2 weeks' I would not go the gym and be cycling every day