Biker's Cafe Chatroom

Freeman · 18 Oct 2017 at 14:08

But this isn't 13 years ago, it's now with modern bikes.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Veyrons but my point is that a 100+bhp bike is safer and better at overtaking than a <60bhp bike.

Hater · 18 Oct 2017 at 14:09

That's my point, modern bikes are even faster...

Overtake on a 500hp bike at the wrong moment and you're just as dead - It's just that any modern bike bigger than 400cc or so is fine to overtake on, if you can't overtake safely it's a rider issue not a bike one...

Whereas on a 125 they're just way too slow, it takes too long.

Snaggle · 18 Oct 2017 at 23:50

no what were saying is doing an overatake with ample power makes 90% of overtakes a complete non issue . you pass so quickly there is so much more margin of safety . Even going from the Tuono which wasnt a slow bike to the MT10 there is a big difference . But dont take this as a big bikes means all overtakes are safe . an unsafe overtake is unsafe with 50bhp or 150bhp . The skill is knowing which one is safe

Yaayuh! · 19 Oct 2017 at 08:27

Snaggle said:
no what were saying is doing an overatake with ample power makes 90% of overtakes a complete non issue . you pass so quickly there is so much more margin of safety . Even going from the Tuono which wasnt a slow bike to the MT10 there is a big difference . But dont take this as a big bikes means all overtakes are safe . an unsafe overtake is unsafe with 50bhp or 150bhp . The skill is knowing which one is safe

My thoughts entirely.

Hater · 19 Oct 2017 at 13:48

Snaggle said:
no what were saying is doing an overatake with ample power makes 90% of overtakes a complete non issue . you pass so quickly there is so much more margin of safety . Even going from the Tuono which wasnt a slow bike to the MT10 there is a big difference . But dont take this as a big bikes means all overtakes are safe . an unsafe overtake is unsafe with 50bhp or 150bhp . The skill is knowing which one is safe

Good luck handling a Tueno if you can't even overtake safely on something that doesn't have 8 million hp :confused:

Hell I can lift the front end of the MT07 in 3rd if you're in the powerband... How much more power do you need than that? So much you have the feather the overtake?

tom_e · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:26

You're completely missing their point.

Snaggle · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:27

Hater said:
Good luck handling a Tueno if you can't even overtake safely on something that doesn't have 8 million hp

Hell I can lift the front end of the MT07 in 3rd if you're in the powerband... How much more power do you need than that? So much you have the feather the overtake?

Not sure if your a troll or just ignorant :confused:

I had the Tuono for 11 years . Previous to that i had a Gsxr 1000 and now a MT10 . Maybe read what i typed instead of assuming you know what yer talking about . And no need to feather the throttle and no need to wheelie .

Hater · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:47

Snaggle said:
Not sure if your a troll or just ignorant

I had the Tuono for 11 years . Previous to that i had a Gsxr 1000 and now a MT10 . Maybe read what i typed instead of assuming you know what yer talking about . And no need to feather the throttle and no need to wheelie .

I can read fine.

And I get it, a faster bike overtakes faster than a slower one.

But... I've done 100k km's on an F4i, an old arse 600 from 15 years ago. It would still demolish anything 4 wheeled on the road these days - Standard it'll do an 11 second quarter mile. Once you've assessed the situation, done the mirror glance, made sure it's safe - Like you're still going to be standing around? How longs it take to shift down and get it in the powerband? Stating that you need a Tueno to overtake safely is madness. No safer than anything else out there once you're in supersport territory. Unless you're trying to overtake other supersports? We're not on about though, this was about riding 125's in traffic...

TallPaul_S · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:51

Here's a direct, exact comparison of an overtake on a 400cc 50bhp bike vs a 1000cc 140bhp bike - same spot, same car speed (40mph). This is me in both videos btw.

Go to 36s

Yes of course you can overtake on a 400cc bike, but just look how much quicker and easier it is on a big bike. The CB400 is at 11k rpm mid-overtake, the tuono barely touches 7k.

Now look at the starting position and ending position of the first overtake by the tuono and compare it to the cb400, both overtakes are initiated (started to accelerate) as I'm passing the white and black sign on the left, and I'd say the tuono is back on the right side of the road a good 10+ car lengths before the CB400. And on the Tuono I was doing about 5-10mph less...

All we're saying is that a bigger bike makes overtakes much, much safer. Video evidence above.

Hater · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:53

We're comparing F4i's to Tuenos here, not CB400's to Tuenos.

MT10's to Tueno's technically...

My first "bigger" bike was an NC31!

The_Abyss · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:56

I'd sum it up slightly differently, which hopefully captures both sides of the debate. If you've the same standard of judgment for your overtaking manoeuvres, no matter what bike you're on, a higher power bike gives more opportunities to execute your safe overtake than a lower power bike. That's how I see it anyway.

Hater · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:58

The_Abyss said:
I'd sum it up slightly differently, which hopefully captures both sides of the debate. If you've the same standard of judgment for your overtaking manoeuvres, no matter what bike you're on, a higher power bike gives more opportunities to execute your safe overtake than a lower power bike. That's how I see it anyway.

Yep, but there's a limit to that. You could debate that having an abundance of power enables you to overtake quickly even when you're in the wrong gear or off the power band, but you kind of know and are in the right gear without thinking when you're in traffic looking to overtake anyway.

TallPaul_S · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:59

Hater said:
It's just that any modern bike bigger than 400cc or so is fine to overtake on

Hater said:
Stating that you need a Tueno to overtake safely is madness.

Hater said:
We're comparing F4i's to Tuenos here, not CB400's to Tuenos.

MT10's to Tueno's technically...

My first "bigger" bike was an NC31!

No-one is saying you need a 1000cc bike to overtake stuff, all we're saying it that it's a hell of a lot safer on one.

And it's spelt Tuono.

The_Abyss said:
I'd sum it up slightly differently, which hopefully captures both sides of the debate. If you've the same standard of judgment for your overtaking manoeuvres, no matter what bike you're on, a higher power bike gives more opportunities to execute your safe overtake than a lower power bike. That's how I see it anyway.

Exactly. The 2x overtakes on the Tuono, i wouldn't have attempted if I was on the CB400, yet they were safe and both below the speed limit!

The_Abyss · 19 Oct 2017 at 14:59

I didn't say there wasn't - of course there are limits at both ends of the scale.

TallPaul_S · 19 Oct 2017 at 15:05

I've seen some downright dangerous overtakes been done on 125's, purely becuase they have to take risks in order to get past stuff. On something with ample power (whether that's a 600 or 1000) you can pick and choose your moment, rather than having to go for a gap that will possibly leave you harms way. It's the same on a 50bph bike (to a lesser extent, obviusly), gaps which I'd take without a second thought on the tuono I'd turn down on the 400.

Anyway wasn't the original post on this about overtaking on a bonneville which has about 50-60bhp?

Hater · 19 Oct 2017 at 15:08

TallPaul_S said:
No-one is saying you need a 1000cc bike to overtake stuff, all we're saying it that it's a hell of a lot safer on one.

Those overtakes seemed safe enough.

TallPaul_S said:
And it's spelt Tuono.

Dammit

TallPaul_S said:
Exactly. The 2x overtakes on the Tuono, i wouldn't have attempted if I was on the CB400, yet they were safe and both below the speed limit!

Yeah but... if you're monitoring the situation correctly, it's still enough time to get the job done. Try that on a 125, you'd think it's safe but by the time you're half way through the overtake, a mile has elapsed...

TallPaul_S said:
Anyway wasn't the original post on this about overtaking on a bonneville which has about 50-60bhp?

Yep, but they're way easier to overtake on than a CB400 simply due to torque. Especially at lower speeds. Engine is twice as big + a bit, so... yeah. No waiting for it to come on song.

In fact I daresay the MT07 is easier to overtake on than things like the ZX-14 - It's so light and nimble you can tuck in there and go. That said I only rode the ZX for like half an hour, with a real run moving that weight would become second nature.

TallPaul_S · 19 Oct 2017 at 15:15

Oh I've been there on a 125, I did 7000 miles of the same commute I do now, lots of 45mph drivers on a wide, open NSL road. 125's are dangerous when trying to overtake, there's the initial spotting of a gap that's at least half a mile long, then winding up the speed from 3-4 car lengths back so you're going faster than the car when you're about to pass it, then the age that you're in the other lane...

Of course anything with 50bhp or more is 100x better than a 125, but I'd say that 100bhp is 3/4x better than 50bhp and a 1000cc with 140bhp or more is 10x better than anything else. It's just soooo effortless on a 1000cc even compared to my 800cc v4.

acemastr · 19 Oct 2017 at 18:42

140bhp... psht

Deleted member 651465 · 19 Oct 2017 at 19:13

I’ll be having my Friday afternoon “is it a girl or a guy?” debate tomorrow.

Without fail, I see someone filtering through the traffic ahead of me at around 4:25pm on the way home from work.

My instinct and senses say it’s a girl from the frame and the long blonde (platted) hair but want to be sure before I get too excited

TallPaul_S · 19 Oct 2017 at 19:13

acemastr said:
140bhp... psht

More torque than your R1 though

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