Black Panther nominations

[ianh]

But no ones arguing that Blade didn't come first... I don't see your point here. Are we meant to mistrust the opinion of all who don't mention Blade in the same breath as Black Panther?

By saying that BP was the "first" then people ARE saying that Blade wasn't the first, and that's either through their lack of knowledge or through a deliberate mis-truth.

The only opinions to be "mis-trusted" are from those who, after being informed of the facts, still decided to repeat their initial opinions, as they now know that those are not routed in fact.

 

[DrToffnar]

By saying that BP was the "first" then people ARE saying that Blade wasn't the first, and that's either through their lack of knowledge or through a deliberate mis-truth.

The only opinions to be "mis-trusted" are from those who, after being informed of the facts, still decided to repeat their initial opinions, as they now know that those are not routed in fact.

But who's saying that BP was the first? There are various articles stating something like "Remember, Blade came first" but I've never seen any examples of people purposefully omitting that fact to encourage one specific opinion or agenda. That's not to say they don't exist, but this argument you seem to have that it's only really being nominated because it's being touted as a 'Marvel first' is largely baseless, especially when you consider that the critics who but fourth the nominations assumedly know a great deal more about cinema then the general populous.

 

[something daft already!!]

You could argue that because they have not made films which feature a super hero from every possible race, ethnic origin, species, transgender, lack of gender etc that they are being somethingist. Although it smacks of being a "Token" film.

Maybe they should make a superhero film based on Brighton. That should cover all bases.

 

[Shamikebab]

Depends how you define superhero really, Blade is remembered more as a vampire movie than a superhero movie. Also Blade wasn't Marvel's first superhero film because Marvel didn't make it.

 

[R3X]

Shocked others thought just like myself it was just 'ok'

tbf I kinda thought spiderman was just ok too but still much better then the reboots and previous spiderman films, would have preferred it being less ironman and more spiderman.

 

[ianh]

There are various articles stating something like "Remember, Blade came first" but I've never seen any examples of people purposefully omitting that fact to encourage one specific opinion or agenda.

Whilst proving "purposely" would be virtually impossible, I'll give you some high profile news/review sites which did omit Blade, and these aren't some unheard of 100 subscriber website I'm talking about, it's multi-million dollar ones -

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/black-panther-comics-must-reads

https://www.etonline.com/black-pant...k-superhero-movie-is-more-than-just-lit-95822

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/2/23/17028826/black-panther-wakanda-culture-marvel

https://www.newsday.com/entertainment/movies/black-panther-1.16552223 - TBF this has been edited to include Blade at the bottom despite not changing the headline or referencing Blade in the body of the article despite that

http://theday.co.uk/arts/marvel-s-first-black-superhero-fights-bigotry

So there's some facts, huge websites like Entertainment Tonight and Wired, which are written by critics who "assumedly know a great deal more about cinema then the general populous.", are still getting it wrong whether accidentally or on purpose (I have no idea which).

but this argument you seem to have that it's only really being nominated because it's being touted as a 'Marvel first' is largely baseless

It's not an Oscar nominee in most categories, except maybe costume, let alone a winner in any but the hype about "Marvels first Black Superhero film" is strong, despite being completely and utterly wrong..........

I never once said it was "only really being nominated because it's being touted as a 'Marvel first'" - I said I didn't think it worth a Nomination but the hype surrounding it was strong, but again all of that is only an opinion, not a fact. I also said that it SHOULD be nominated for Best Costume showing that I believed that it is worthy of a nomination in that category, which is again just an opinion.

However at this point I feel like this back and forth between the two of use is pretty much cluttering the thread so, this'll be my last reply so we can let this thread get back on track but thanks for the stimulating discussion and I look forward to reading your reply.

PS, Hopefully you understood that my initial review of BP was facetious rather than genuine

 

[drunkenmaster]

I would suggest it does the complete opposite. It belittles real African culture.

It's suggesting the only way Africans can be any good is to be hit by a magic metal rock.

And even when you are superior you still need to hide from the scary white people for some BS reason. Quite insulting really. See ianh's review for more on this.

Also the whole, the whole world was 'tribal' in nature when we were small uncivilised groups. Much of the middle east still has a tribal attitude to control, warlords controlling regions in Afghanistan, etc. The general thing is as a nation becomes more advanced it simply loses it's tribalistic nature. Somehow the super advanced black nation still acts like an uncivilised tribe because... it seems African? the reality is by keeping the tribal attitudes and rituals they are just saying in so many words that it's still an uncivilised nation that never really grew out of it. The simple fact is with this level of technology they could dominate the entire planet, prevent black people (or anyone they wanted) from being oppressed across the planet and stop any war they wanted, instead they just hid because again, some stupid as hell reasons.

Personally thought the constant need to add 'uncivilised' things like fighting to be king and war rhinos, it was all lets say, unintentionally racist.

 

[aardvark]

I would suggest it does the complete opposite. It belittles real African culture.

It's suggesting the only way Africans can be any good is to be hit by a magic metal rock.

And even when you are superior you still need to hide from the scary white people for some BS reason. Quite insulting really. See ianh's review for more on this.

i agree - i think its insulting to black people really.

 

[Begbie]

Depends how you define superhero really, Blade is remembered more as a vampire movie than a superhero movie. Also Blade wasn't Marvel's first superhero film because Marvel didn't make it.

TBF, Marvel Movies didn't exist.

So to say it's not a 'Marvel' movie isn't really true. It's a movie based on a Marvel character.

 

[VincentHanna]

The simple fact is with this level of technology they could dominate the entire planet, prevent black people (or anyone they wanted) from being oppressed across the planet

Did you use the part where that was pretty much Killmongers plan? And his whole point.

It's amusing that people here are deadly serious that the film was racist towards black people.

Written/directed by a black man and starring a mainly black cast

It made more at the domestic US box office than Infinity War, by the way.

 

[Mark1989]

I loved the film and found it better than avengers infinity war so yes to me it should be up for some nominations

 

[SixTwoSix]

I agree with most others, it's not a great super hero movie and certainly not in the top tier of MCU movies.

It made more at the domestic US box office than Infinity War, by the way.

Since when is 1.34 billion (BP) more than 2.04 billion (IW)?

EDIT: Oh...US box office, NM

 

[DrToffnar]

Whilst proving "purposely" would be virtually impossible, I'll give you some high profile news/review sites which did omit Blade, and these aren't some unheard of 100 subscriber website I'm talking about, it's multi-million dollar ones -

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/black-panther-comics-must-reads

https://www.etonline.com/black-pant...k-superhero-movie-is-more-than-just-lit-95822

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/2/23/17028826/black-panther-wakanda-culture-marvel

https://www.newsday.com/entertainment/movies/black-panther-1.16552223 - TBF this has been edited to include Blade at the bottom despite not changing the headline or referencing Blade in the body of the article despite that

http://theday.co.uk/arts/marvel-s-first-black-superhero-fights-bigotry

So there's some facts, huge websites like Entertainment Tonight and Wired, which are written by critics who "assumedly know a great deal more about cinema then the general populous.", are still getting it wrong whether accidentally or on purpose (I have no idea which).





I never once said it was "only really being nominated because it's being touted as a 'Marvel first'" - I said I didn't think it worth a Nomination but the hype surrounding it was strong, but again all of that is only an opinion, not a fact. I also said that it SHOULD be nominated for Best Costume showing that I believed that it is worthy of a nomination in that category, which is again just an opinion.

However at this point I feel like this back and forth between the two of use is pretty much cluttering the thread so, this'll be my last reply so we can let this thread get back on track but thanks for the stimulating discussion and I look forward to reading your reply.

PS, Hopefully you understood that my initial review of BP was facetious rather than genuine

You know what man, I'll concede to you there. You actually went out of your way to provide sufficient evidence and countered my argument with reasoned and courteous responses. Plus it's Christmas, so I'll let you have this one


P.S. Read that back and it sounded condescending as hell, apologies if it comes across as such xD

 

[DrToffnar]

Did you use the part where that was pretty much Killmongers plan? And his whole point.

It's amusing that people here are deadly serious that the film was racist towards black people.

Written/directed by a black man and starring a mainly black cast

It made more at the domestic US box office than Infinity War, by the way.

Indeed. I guess it's all in how you see it, but to say that the film is racist against black people is seeing it a little backwards imo.

 

[No1newts]

Indeed. I guess it's all in how you see it, but to say that the film is racist against black people is seeing it a little backwards imo.

It's not racist buts it's a valid point DM raises that even in a film by black people, about black people... they then play up to every stereotype that they profess to hate and hate being inflicted upon them.

Almost Stockholm syndrome esque.

 

[VincentHanna]

I believe the idea was - what would an idealised African society be like, free of any white colonial interference.

Bear in mind that most African countries had tribes before we or the Dutch or French arrived.

It has to have a magic rock because Vibranium was already established in Avengers 2, to come from Wakanda.

 

[mmj_uk]

Hasn't that island off India where the Christian missionary recently got killed by a spear wielding tribe been free of colonial influence? the places in Africa where we (British) colonised are or were some of the most advanced places in Africa.

The reason it's been nominated is obvious, nearly everything happening or being reported in the news at the moment has a political message or motivation.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Thought the film was pretty bland and i'm sorry but the cgi was way off in this movie...

 

[DrToffnar]

And the culture also changes profoundly by the end of the flick. T'Challa's ark is literally all about him coming to terms with the fact that his cultures identity IS profoundly wayward and close minded in how it deals with both itself and everyone outside of Wakanda.

 

[dowie]

The virtual signalling with this film was strong when the reviews came out, this was reflected in the film getting to the #1 spot on Rotten Tomatoes.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me it it were nominated too.