Did you 'disagree' with dowie by ignoring everything said and countering the position presented by saying it was crap inane babbling? I mean that sort of posting style would surely be the work of a moron...
Blame on both sides
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Plausible, but Dowie is Mr Hyde at best or Mr Hankey at worst
I was just pointing out that in reality people think that race is real, either as a uniting force or as a means of discrimination. While race does not have any scientific basis it does have a very real social basis. I honestly don't understand how you cannot see that.
I think it is a bit of a lost cause unfortunately. It is a bit bizarre, it ought to be fairly straight forward to point out that yes while there aren't clear boundaries for the existence of 'race' from a biological perspective the social concept of race exists and is still pretty relevant today... but apparently not.
You only have to look at the ONS Census for a pretty obvious clue that while there is diviersity even within ‘White’, ‘Black’, ‘Asian’ etc. there are clearly defined groups that are used for all sorts of statistical analysis on the population:
England and Wales Northern Ireland Scotland
White
English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British Scottish
Other British
Irish
Irish Traveller Gypsy or Irish
Any other White ethnic group, please describe
Mixed / multiple ethnic groups Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups
White and Black Caribbean
White and Black African
Any Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups, please describe
Asian / Asian British Asian, Asian Scottish or Asian British
Indian, Indian Scottish or Indian British
Pakistani, Pakistani Scottish or Pakistani British
Bangladeshi, Bangladeshi Scottish or Bangladeshi British
Chinese, Chinese Scottish or Chinese British
Any other Asian, please describe
Black / African / Caribbean / Black British
African, African Scottish or African British
Any other African, please describe
Caribbean, Caribbean Scottish or Caribbean British
Black, Black Scottish or Black British
Any other Black / African / Caribbean background
Other ethnic group
Arab Arab
Arab Scottish or Arab British
Any other ethnic group, please describe
Biologically they may all be the same but people self-identify with these groups.
I don’t really see what the problem is?
England and Wales Northern Ireland Scotland
White
English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British Scottish
Other British
Irish
Irish Traveller Gypsy or Irish
Any other White ethnic group, please describe
Mixed / multiple ethnic groups Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups
White and Black Caribbean
White and Black African
Any Mixed or Multiple ethnic groups, please describe
Asian / Asian British Asian, Asian Scottish or Asian British
Indian, Indian Scottish or Indian British
Pakistani, Pakistani Scottish or Pakistani British
Bangladeshi, Bangladeshi Scottish or Bangladeshi British
Chinese, Chinese Scottish or Chinese British
Any other Asian, please describe
Black / African / Caribbean / Black British
African, African Scottish or African British
Any other African, please describe
Caribbean, Caribbean Scottish or Caribbean British
Black, Black Scottish or Black British
Any other Black / African / Caribbean background
Other ethnic group
Arab Arab
Arab Scottish or Arab British
Any other ethnic group, please describe
Biologically they may all be the same but people self-identify with these groups.
I don’t really see what the problem is?
Who here has claimed a problem with individuals self selecting an ethnic group?
To my knowledge none of the classifications including police identity codes are based on measuring skin pigmentation, in the case of many of my friends and family that approach would be mental!
If people are self-identifying as being part of those groups, and those groups are clearly recognised by society, it stands to reason that people outside of those groups will project those labels onto other people (rightly or wrongly).
So when a police officer (or anyone else for that matter) ‘identifies’ a member of the public as ‘Black’ or ‘White’ or ‘Asian’ they probably aren’t going into the minutiae of whether that person is ‘West African Black’ or ‘Carribean Black’ or ‘White English’ or ‘White Scottish’ (presumably until they talk to them and then the accent gives it away).
However, they have applied a general label to that individual and in doing so, consciously or otherwise, open themselves up to cognitive bias which has an effect on the way they then act towards the other person.
This in turn leads to the differences in arrest/conviction/sentence length we were discussing earlier.
Is there something I have posted that suggests all people never group themselves in any way, or that discrimination doesn't occur?
Not at all. What you have posted is that ‘race’ doesn’t exist because we’re all biologically similar and that anyone who discriminates against skin colour is an idiot.
I couldn’t agree with you more on those two points.
You’ve had this massive semantic argument with dowie and RDM about race and skin colour that seems to have been completely at cross purposes, it all feels like a lot of wasted energy to be honest.
Generally agreed, although it's hardly accidental, in Dowies case he has clearly attributed words to me and positions that I have not said!
Frankly it's my own fault for using reasoned evidence to discuss race with people who will not denounce rallying alongside people who Salute Adolf hitler!
Let's not pretend some balanced discussion, where I'm just being a bit pedantic to Mr Hankey ffs!
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No you just kept harping on about biological arguments after being repeatedly told that one wasn't being made but rather the social aspects were being commented on... you decided to ignore this for whatever reason - presumably because you wanted to pick a fight/derail the thread/whatever... and we had all the nonsense about deluxe colour charts etc..etc.. It's gone on for 4 pages now all because you decided to pretend race doesn't exist and that having straight hair or different coloured eyes is just the same.
I'm Derailing a thread which is with and about idiots who wont denounce marching alongside Nazis saluting Hitler who then killed someone?
You are not derailing a thread by totally misrepresenting what I have said, repeatedly!
Simple rule of thumb, never let Nazi supporters explain race, it's neither culturally/socially or scientifically accepted in the UK!
I'm not misrepresenting anything, like I said before I'm more than happy to have a discussion - you on the other hand seem to have just wanted to pick a fight and have you've clung onto this biological position repeatedly. Now you've decided to chuck in stuff about 'Mr Hanky' etc.. it's rather odd.
You have said this and supported none of it.
From the same person who attempted to suggest Hitler Saluting "Neo Nazis" (one of who murders someone) shouldn't be described as genocidal and wont denounce marching alongside them unlike the famous alt-lefty Arnold Schwarzenegger. I'm saying if we want a grown up discussion about race, we might use reason and evidence and avoid people supportive of the 'social constructions' of the past.
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