BMW and M Power Owners

Every time somebody in this forum mentions an SUV you are there telling them the choice is stupid, they should buy a lorry, it's not required, blah blah.

I get your dislike of SUV's, I would never buy one either and I don't think the benefits are worth the disadvantages over something like a decent Estate but we must be very careful with this sort of argument because lets be honest, do you 'need' 250bhp? No you do not. Unless we drive a Focus 1.6 or something we likely all drive cars we don't really need, but instead simply want.

Your want is for a powerfulish petrol saloon. Other peoples wants is for a high driving position. Some people want no roof. Others want a very low driving position. We should stick to steering them away from poor examples of the cars they like and into decent ones (ie, don't buy an X1) rather than attempting the impossible of convincing an SUV buyer they really want a Volvo Estate because it's never going to happen :p

Rightly or wrongly many women like the perception of safety they get from a higher driving position. We know it isn't reality but perception is greater than reality and entire product lines are sold on perception rather than reality (heck, we might end up voting out of the EU based on perception not reality) so somebody who perceives this isn't going to suddenly change their mind because somebody on an internet forum pointed out they were wrong.
 
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[TW]Fox;29393704 said:
He didn't when he got his M5, barely mentioned it :(

Hundreds of YouTube videos tho :p
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Talk about elephants never forgetting, gossip, gossip. ;)

Glad you like them all and unlike some I prefer not to bore everyone to death about my BMWs... :p
 
It's got absolutely sod all to do with psychological superiority, it's because you have significantly better visibility when you're higher up, that's why people like it.

Wanting to be higher up doesn't also automatically mean people no longer want a car either, hence they pick cars with high driving positions, not vans.
 
[TW]Fox;29397068 said:
Every time somebody in this forum mentions an SUV you are there telling them the choice is stupid, they should buy a lorry, it's not required, blah blah.

I get your dislike of SUV's, I would never buy one either and I don't think the benefits are worth the disadvantages over something like a decent Estate but we must be very careful with this sort of argument because lets be honest, do you 'need' 250bhp? No you do not. Unless we drive a Focus 1.6 or something we likely all drive cars we don't really need, but instead simply want.
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You didn't answer any of my questions.

Suvs are by and large nothing more than a fashion choice. You've said yourself that the advantages of them don't surpass the disadvantages by quite some margin.

It is fact that more women than men buy them

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/trans...s-women-like-suvs-and-self-driving-cars-get-a

It is also a notion held by fully qualified psychiatrists and psychologists that the choice of people to buy suvs is not down to their perceived utility (we both agree they're not all that great!) but due to the sense of superiority I have mentioned

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_sport_utility_vehicles

Also for the power for me it's very useful. My area is full of single lane national speed limit roads and old people. Ergo overtaking with short gaps = power useful
 
Dis86 said:
You didn't answer any of my questions.

Suvs are by and large nothing more than a fashion choice. You've said yourself that the advantages of them don't surpass the disadvantages by quite some margin.

It is fact that more women than men buy them

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/trans...s-women-like-suvs-and-self-driving-cars-get-a

It is also a notion held by fully qualified psychiatrists and psychologists that the choice of people to buy suvs is not down to their perceived utility (we both agree they're not all that great!) but due to the sense of superiority I have mentioned

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_sport_utility_vehicles

Also for the power for me it's very useful. My area is full of single lane national speed limit roads and old people. Ergo overtaking with short gaps = power useful
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Having had an MPV and what is often misinterpreted as an SUV (CX-5) I can only say that every negative connotation being peddled here was not why I bought either..

The MPV was an easy choice when we had 2 very young kids and needed that family practicality.. Practicality that includes ease of ingress/egress especially with kids or other large items.. To boot, you could easily load/unload anything from the higher boot, and the extra height meant extra cubby holes and other useful things in the roof.

When the kids got a bit bigger, I had the chance to get something less practical, but on trying estates and other choices that seem to be preferred on here, I just immediately came away with the fact that they are harder to load/unload, get in and out of, and really as a 'relaxing' family wagon, an SUV/Crossover/MPV still appeals..

I sold my CX-5 to a vet who wanted the space and extra height for her dogs and all the gear she has to cart around, especially having to load/unload it all..
We even bought a Mini Countryman for the Mrs as an inbetween choice, something small enough she was happy driving, but that little bit extra passenger room and ease of getting in/out, and the person we bought the Countryman off bought a Kia Sportage because she was a PA to a musical organisation and had to cart loads of gear around and needed the space.

I have no doubt that some people buy them for status, but all I can say is I like taller vehicles for their 'ease' of everything.. going to my E46 M3 convertible that is currently 'slammed' is a bit of a contrast, and something I'd only put up with for something entertaining.. I now don't understand why anyone would want an 'estate' with a slow engine because it seems the worst of all worlds to me, but each to their own!
 
Voxination said:
To be fair I used to think the argument was BS until I drove a Discovery, there is something very enjoyable about being up high.
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I agree. I find it very enjoyable. I always felt good driving my Range Rovers, and to a lesser extent, my Alhambra, mostly due to seeing more.

chroniclard said:
More enjoyable being low as possible. :p
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I see the argument from both sides. There is enjoyment to be had in being low, at times. Not so much in stop start traffic though.
 
After my parents left the CRV at our house while on holiday I found absolutely no enjoyment being up high( or higher, its not exactly a massive SUV)!

Could be because its just a rubbish car with lumbering handling and awful performance mind. All it had going for it is straight line comfort.

Fine with people choosing whatever car they like but also fine with slating their choices. :p
 
Newsflash! People enjoy different driving positions and heights!

Anyway, back on track, Estoril Blue is the best colour in the world. My recent purchase;

w23aYVgh.jpg.png

Stupendous power delivery, which I think comes in part from my relatively humble background of cars (Clio RS 200, E46 330's), and in part to actually being pretty rapid. The folk I've taken out in it so far have been impressed with the pace it delivers and its relative comfort for what it is. It is exactly the car I wanted for myself right now and it's delivering on it's promise of being a Jack of all trades (and obviously a master of none).

This one has the adaptive suspension and if I'm being completely honest, I'm not exactly sure what it's doing. In comfort mode, the car soaks up the road and creates a comfortable ride. The steering wheel is suspiciously light however, but around town this can be a pleasurable experience. In Sport, everything tightens and immediately you begin to feel the road again, but the steering feel "weight" goes too far the other way, almost like it's broken and artificially heavy (which I guess it is).

I've yet to really try Eco Pro as I don't use an M-way for my commute, but the lack of throttle response in this mode is frankly laughable so I'd never use it unless on a long road trip somewhere.

Similarly, no long use of Sport + either, as once again I only have a small amount of knowledge of what it's doing to the car (I appreciate driving aids are being limited/turned off (shock horror, an OCUK motors forum goer who isn't a driving God...)), but once I am more comfortable with the car and have read through the manuals in more depth, I'm sure I'll be having a bit of fun.

First brim to brim test yielded 26mpg, exactly the same as my preceding 330Ci, which I'm a little bit gutted about. Admittedly I have been canning the poor thing when sensible to do so :D but realistically I've not been gunning it the whole time either. It's properly bedded in, too, being a 30,000 miler, 3 year old car. The tyres are brand new however, and I've yet to check the pressures, so that's a job for today at some point.

Other options on this car are;

Heated seats, which I thoroughly missed on my last car and would never not spec again; quick to heat up with three different settings, nothing more to say about that.

Pro Nav, by far the best option you can tick (after the ZF8), beautiful display and it makes the cabin feel modern. Almost bought a car with the smaller, Business Nav, glad I didn't.

Loudspeaker (business system?), pretty good, not quite as good as my HK in the E46 but damn close. Would probably spec HK if I was buying new, but whether or not it's worth the additional £300 is to be debated. It's not exactly the perfect listening environment, an F20 with 320bhp, so it's nothing to worry about truthfully. Clear, crisp sound with loud volume, from what I've read it's pretty much a must have over standard.

The ZF8... Wow. What a gearbox. My first auto car I've owned, and honestly it's probably changed my perception of autos forever. My 330Ci was in for work last year and I had an LCI 320d with the ZF8 gearbox as a loaner. I kinda groaned as they gave me the keys after I'd said I wasn't that bothered if it was a manual or auto, and eventually getting the auto. How wrong could my perception of this transmission be? Quite, is the answer. After a short few miles I'd soaked up, I was sold. I told myself my next car would be an auto, and it would hopefully be this beautiful ZF8 (and that turned out to be true).

In short, it's stupidly fast, reasonable economical, comfortable and refined whilst being totally practical. Looks are subjective, it's better in the flesh though, but it's no stunner/head turner, but this will do me for a couple of years. Having said all that, I absolutely love it. My one and only gripe is that it's almost too quick for British roads, revving out my 330Ci to get to the speed limit was more entertaining, with the M135i it's like "Oh, we're at it already?!" :D
 
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On the high up argument, before we had the 5 series we had a Qashqai+2. My wife wanted to replace the Nissan with something high up. I challenged her to rock scissors papers best of three for the choice. I won and we got the BMW :D.

Her sister prefers higher cars having been a passenger in a few. It is personal preference, I for example absolutely do not care either way. It does seem to be a female thing and security/safety perception. In fairness this didn't help my other sister in law from missing the fact that a car in front had stopped when in her X5 this week lol.
 
wingman said:
Newsflash! People enjoy different driving positions and heights!

Anyway, back on track, Estoril Blue is the best colour in the world. My recent purchase;

w23aYVgh.jpg.png :D
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Lovely, a good stealthy pocket rocket.. Amazing to think the E46 M3 was considered quick back in the day, now, it's just pretty average.
 
[TW]Fox;29398180 said:
Well no, the E46 M3 isn't 'pretty average' at all. It's still quick.
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When I say average, I meant there are quite a few more mainstream cars that are equally as quick these days..

the BMW ?35 range are almost there or there abouts, a 640d definitely has no issues keeping up in a straight line, and my brothers remapped E350 CDI also keeps up quite well..

Maybe I know too many people with reasonable pacey cars!.. Not that I mind at all, my M3 sounds purposeful and is hugely entertaining in the way it makes it's power and its overall persona, but I'm under no illusion that I won't just walk away from a remapped hot hatch/large diesel or some of the quicker non-M BMWs..
 
I don't really think these are particularly mainstream cars though are they - and the 335i has been 'there abouts' for 10 years now!

A 640d keeps up becuase it has similar power!
 
[TW]Fox;29398218 said:
I don't really think these are particularly mainstream cars though are they - and the 335i has been 'there abouts' for 10 years now!

A 640d keeps up becuase it has similar power!
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As always, Captain sensible has to be right.. I concede that perhaps my frame of reference is a bit off.. :D

It's been funny getting an old M3, everyone loves to tell me how their modern car is just as quick etc.. which I have no issues with at all.. I purposefully decided to buy something 'cheap' but fun so I didn't feel guilty with it sat on the driveway not moving the majority of the time..

ANd slightly OT, I was amazed that a 50 mile motorway jaunt back from the indy garage at 75-80MPH netted 33.5MPG.. I'm not sure if I should be proud or embarassed..
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Sam said:
Have you seen an M2 in the flesh? really does look good. Im not a massive fan on the look of the cayman/s, GTS is better however i do LOVE the GT4.



To be fair 2 series are ten a penny but the M2 will defiantly get some looks, BMW have done a great job...
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...Obvious M2 fanboy :p

I was in Partridge BMW yesterday and they had what looked like an M2 under a cover (hard to be sure when covered up). Possibly a customer collection that afternoon?

I assume you've ordered one, Sam. If you have you'll have to come down this way some time :)
 
Had a good nose around the M2. Lovely looking car, not sure it's worth over 50K but they look lovely and sounded nice too when started. Sadly I then had to listen to the sales guy telling me how "they will only make 2000" and "you won't get one for months". I then told him they would make more than 2000, it's not a limited run car and I have the option on one if I want one, which I don't. Coffee was OK mind.
 
Housey said:
Had a good nose around the M2. Lovely looking car, not sure it's worth over 50K but they look lovely and sounded nice too when started. Sadly I then had to listen to the sales guy telling me how "they will only make 2000" and "you won't get one for months". I then told him they would make more than 2000, it's not a limited run car and I have the option on one if I want one, which I don't. Coffee was OK mind.
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I'm kind of glad I didn't put a deposit down on one now seeing what the price is. I think it's just too high to be honest.

That said, I love the way it looks and goes, and I'm sure it would be excellent to drive as well...but it's just so much money, doubly so when you look at the discounts available on the M4.
 
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