BMW/Audi drivers surpassed?

[Dis86]

What you seem to have done here, is find an article about the dangers of SUVs for collisions involving elderly pedestrians, isolated a single response to it from someone who shares your opinion on psychology, then claimed that it therefore backs up your assertion that the majority only buy SUVs for a feeling of superiority over others as legitimate fact.

I don't really buy that - whilst I completely agree that there is probably quite a large subset of drivers who think driving an SUV gives them some dominance, I don't think its the overriding factor that you say it is. I'm pretty sure my elderly parents with their ageing knees and backs aren't really bothered about dominating the road, nor lording it over others; they just found the ideal car for their needs in the SUV segment. Similarly, I doubt very much that the thousands of young parents ferrying their kids around in cheap Kias/Nissans/Renaults/etc are doing so primarily because they think it gives them some ability to look down on others, but just because again, the raised platform of an SUV is a bit easier to access all the crap you apparently need when you have children. For every idiot I get tailgating me or trying to dominate me in their SUV, there's hundreds of them being driven no differently or more aggressively than any other car.

You obviously have some innate dislike of SUVs, and that's fine - there's plenty of good reasons for that. But attacking the majority owners of them for buying them for nothing other than the psychological boost is nothing more than your subjective opinion. I could quite as easily state that the reason the majority of owners of anything with a BMW/Audi/Merc badge is due to the same, and I'm pretty sure I'd have no trouble finding similar comments online agreeing with me, but I wouldn't try and claim that as a fact as a result.

Are you a peer approved psychologist? If not, then sadly what you think is largely irrelevant.

More sources for you to enjoy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5599441/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160219222512/http://gladwell.com/big-and-bad/

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Energy_Efficiency_and_Practical_Implications

There's 3 more. There are many more out there if you care to look for facts beyond just the opinion you've presented in your post above.

 

[HangTime]

I don't think there is any particular pattern, SUVs get more hate these days simply because there are more of them, doesn't mean the proportion of bad drivers has gone up.
People just love to have a moan, the same as the whole "standard of driving these days, tsssk" debate, I don't think it is materially worse than in the past, perhaps there are just more cars on the roads. And people must have lived incredibly sheltered lives if they think the standard is bad in the UK, it is exceptionally high compared to most countries I've visited.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I find this as annoying as the other "stereotype" Audi driver traits tbh!

It's infuriating following someone who is constantly being "courteous" like that. Just get on with it, stop interrupting the flow of traffic and causing potentially confusing or dangerous situations, and let the system flow as it should!

The other day I watched someone stop and wave some pedestrians across a two-lane section of road. If someone had been barrelling along in the other lane it would have ended very badly! Foolish. Let them make their own choices and safety decisions.

Lolz find it annoying all you like, I still do it.

You seem a bit confused though, I don't stop specifically to let them cross, but if they are waiting to cross by a junction or traffic queuing etc then I indicate to them its safe to cross in front of me. I also consider the traffic coming the other way, and if its not going to be safe then I don't indicate to them, if they choose to go then thats up to them. Takes what 10 seconds to cross, woooo, thats seriously disruptive to traffic flow.

And as a shocker I have done the same driving all the cars I have owned, so Ford, Toyota, Subaru, BMW, Mini, Audi. Actually I probably didnt when I had my first two cars, a different ford and a vauxhall, I was the typical ignorant car driver at that point.

Courtesy costs nothing, too many just become a douche when behind the wheel of a car.

 

[HangTime]

The irony is there is a converse scenario: Pedestrian crossings in car parks. Many drivers seem to completely ignore these and just drive straight at them without slowing, meaning they either have to brake suddenly if the peds are feeling brave, or force people with right of way to wait.
It's odd, because generally discipline at crossings on normal roads is better.

 

[Howard]

Courtesy costs nothing

Not until it all goes horribly wrong in the blink of an eye. What you have mentioned, i.e. letting someone out in front of you (or a pedestrian to cross) into stationary traffic is different, but that's just one scenario. There are so many scenarios that can be described (and that I've witnessed near-misses in) where it can go wrong. Peoples' idea of courtesy on the roads is often misplaced.

 

[Nasher]

The irony is there is a converse scenario: Pedestrian crossings in car parks. Many drivers seem to completely ignore these and just drive straight at them without slowing, meaning they either have to brake suddenly if the peds are feeling brave, or force people with right of way to wait.
It's odd, because generally discipline at crossings on normal roads is better.

Often the sides of crossings in carparks are obscured by SUVs and you cant see people approaching.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not until it all goes horribly wrong in the blink of an eye. What you have mentioned, i.e. letting someone out in front of you (or a pedestrian to cross) into stationary traffic is different, but that's just one scenario. There are so many scenarios that can be described (and that I've witnessed near-misses in) where it can go wrong. Peoples' idea of courtesy on the roads is often misplaced.

Well everyones experience will differ. But in my 30 years I can swear to the fact that the majority of incidents I have witnessed have been from those deliberately being the opposite to courteous, deliberately speeding up, deliberately blocking (be that cars or the gap for pedestrians to cross), deliberately pulling out to cause another to taking avoiding action. All where some common courtesy would improve the situation for all.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Often the sides of crossings in carparks are obscured by SUVs and you cant see people approaching.

Partly this, partly that seemingly sensible people turn into morons in carparks. I mean the area where by definition you have vehicles and pedestrians mixing so a low speed limit, but some people seem to think it should just be ignored and that cars should have priority.

 

[Resident]

What do you say about lorry drivers who love to block merge in turns (dual carriageway to single type situations, everyone weirdly queuing in lane 1 leaving lane 2 clear) way up the lane as if they are a vigilante police. hate them :angry:

For me on routes through the city centre where I work there's a 2 to 1 merge but it's not a typical layout & if you're a large vehicle such as a bus or a truck it's far safer to sit in the middle of the two. This is mostly down to taxis using merge lane to overtake then taking the immediate left after the merge point with no regards to the vehicle they've overtaken.

Last year 17 taxis were T-boned at this spot. In all but one the taxi was found at fault.

I hope we can all reach a consensus that taxi drivers, irrespective of car make, are indeed the worst drivers on the roads.

100% agreed

 

[Conscript]

Are you a peer approved psychologist? If not, then sadly what you think is largely irrelevant.

More sources for you to enjoy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5599441/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160219222512/http://gladwell.com/big-and-bad/

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Energy_Efficiency_and_Practical_Implications

There's 3 more. There are many more out there if you care to look for facts beyond just the opinion you've presented in your post above.

Thanks. I will read those, because I genuinely find stuff like this quite interesting. I have to ask though, what is it with the rather condescending tone of your replies?

- You posted an opinion, one which you've echoed in previous threads.
- You post a link to a comment and use that as a basis to legitimise your opinion as fact by claiming it's a valid source.
- I challenge that, and as far as I can tell, I do so politely.
- Your response is then to follow up with some better sources, which I appreciate, but you come across as a bit haughty..."...what you think is largely irrelevant"...."if you care to look for facts"....you're right, I didn't go looking for facts to support your opinion before I replied, because I figured that if your first supplied source was just an opinion similar to your own, then perhaps that was the extent of your evidence. If you'd posted those new sources in the initial post, I wouldn't have even replied.

There's no need to be so prickly every time someone challenges your opinion. If you think I was being rude in doing so, then apologies, that wasn't the intention. I just wanted to raise it because your opinion is at odds with my experience.

For what it's worth, I own a car which I think is defined as an "SUV" (Kia Sorento), and the reason I challenged you is because it's never once crossed my mind that the high driving position makes me better than anyone, nor was that the reason for buying it. Trust me, I'm under no illusion of superiority while driving a tatty, second-hand Kia So it being implied that that's the primary reason I bought it just doesn't ring true with me.

Thank you for the links. I will take a look later.

 

[SDK^]

It's more down to general driver behavior than a specific brand of cars having bad drivers.

I drive a BMW and always 100% use indicators, let people out, drive in a defensive approach etc.... I see a mix of car brands with drivers who feel like they don't need to let people know what they are doing.

 

[wingman]

We don't deserve Conscript.

 

[Tee Hee Johnson]

Thanks. I will read those, because I genuinely find stuff like this quite interesting. I have to ask though, what is it with the rather condescending tone of your replies?

- You posted an opinion, one which you've echoed in previous threads.
- You post a link to a comment and use that as a basis to legitimise your opinion as fact by claiming it's a valid source.
- I challenge that, and as far as I can tell, I do so politely.
- Your response is then to follow up with some better sources, which I appreciate, but you come across as a bit haughty..."...what you think is largely irrelevant"...."if you care to look for facts"....you're right, I didn't go looking for facts to support your opinion before I replied, because I figured that if your first supplied source was just an opinion similar to your own, then perhaps that was the extent of your evidence. If you'd posted those new sources in the initial post, I wouldn't have even replied.

There's no need to be so prickly every time someone challenges your opinion. If you think I was being rude in doing so, then apologies, that wasn't the intention. I just wanted to raise it because your opinion is at odds with my experience.

For what it's worth, I own a car which I think is defined as an "SUV" (Kia Sorento), and the reason I challenged you is because it's never once crossed my mind that the high driving position makes me better than anyone, nor was that the reason for buying it. Trust me, I'm under no illusion of superiority while driving a tatty, second-hand Kia So it being implied that that's the primary reason I bought it just doesn't ring true with me.

Thank you for the links. I will take a look later.

rekt.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Well we have a Kia Sportage! Not much else to say, I consider MrsHB and I as good drivers, we don't tailgate as I would hate that, if anything it's calmed my driving down because of the comfort and tech. (Used to race a lot)

A Sportage is not big by the way, it's quite tiny in fact (Ex VW Amarok owner here) but it's big enough for our 4 dogs (Just!!) - The primary reason I like the higher driving position is in bad weather, you are further removed from road spray.

I like the fact that Audi drivers with the LED left to right, right to left indicators now use them, just to show they've got them!

 

[Dis86]

Thanks. I will read those, because I genuinely find stuff like this quite interesting. I have to ask though, what is it with the rather condescending tone of your replies?

- You posted an opinion, one which you've echoed in previous threads.
- You post a link to a comment and use that as a basis to legitimise your opinion as fact by claiming it's a valid source.
- I challenge that, and as far as I can tell, I do so politely.
- Your response is then to follow up with some better sources, which I appreciate, but you come across as a bit haughty..."...what you think is largely irrelevant"...."if you care to look for facts"....you're right, I didn't go looking for facts to support your opinion before I replied, because I figured that if your first supplied source was just an opinion similar to your own, then perhaps that was the extent of your evidence. If you'd posted those new sources in the initial post, I wouldn't have even replied.

There's no need to be so prickly every time someone challenges your opinion. If you think I was being rude in doing so, then apologies, that wasn't the intention. I just wanted to raise it because your opinion is at odds with my experience.

For what it's worth, I own a car which I think is defined as an "SUV" (Kia Sorento), and the reason I challenged you is because it's never once crossed my mind that the high driving position makes me better than anyone, nor was that the reason for buying it. Trust me, I'm under no illusion of superiority while driving a tatty, second-hand Kia So it being implied that that's the primary reason I bought it just doesn't ring true with me.

Thank you for the links. I will take a look later.

I posted a link showing a clear support of the opinion I expressed as a single example. You dismissed it and my opinion without looking at the multitude of other sources to support it. An amazingly simple example of the theory is that of thrones. They are raised, most often on a form of dais, to give the occupier height above those attending them in order to cement their importance.

It may well have never crossed your mind, because it could well be sub-conscious. It may well be tatty and second-hand but why buy that vs the many other tatty second hand cars out there?

We see the same excuses on here all the time where people attempt to justify them, oh I'm tall, oh I have a bad knee, oh I need space for the kids, oh I need the ground clearance, oh...but the thing is they are excuses. In almost all instances another vehicle type (typically an MPV tbh) will be a superior choice from a practical point of view to suit their needs.

The Chelsea Tractor moniker coined in the 80s/90s is the perfect example. Nothing but status symbols to the vast majority of wealthy Londoners that possessed them. The fact that SUVs are now more widely available to a greater market doesn't change the reason people are buying them, it just means more people are buying them for the same old reason.

 

[AiiR]

Have you ever had a bad knee and had access to a saloon Vs an SUV? Because I can tell you from experience which one I preferred getting out of (getting in, not so much of an issue) and it's definitely not an excuse.

You seem to have a weird hatred of SUVs, I've honestly never seen someone so upset over a type of vehicle.

 

[Dis86]

Have you ever had a bad knee and had access to a saloon Vs an SUV? Because I can tell you from experience which one I preferred getting out of (getting in, not so much of an issue) and it's definitely not an excuse.

You seem to have a weird hatred of SUVs, I've honestly never seen someone so upset over a type of vehicle.

Yeah, I've got permanent tendon damage to my right knee. I can get in and out of my Porsche just fine, it's lower than any saloon I've been in.

 

[AiiR]

Yeah, I've got permanent tendon damage to my right knee. I can get in and out of my Porsche just fine, it's lower than any saloon I've been in.

So your knee condition isn't really affected by getting in and out of your car then. I have a lack of cartilage in my left knee and putting pressure on it a day or 2 after vigorous exercise is something I have to psyche myself up for. Getting out of an SUV is a doddle compared to a saloon.

 

[Dis86]

So your knee condition isn't really affected by getting in and out of your car then. I have a lack of cartilage in my left knee and putting pressure on it a day or 2 after vigorous exercise is something I have to psyche myself up for. Getting out of an SUV is a doddle compared to a saloon.

Seemingly nor is yours, you've literally just said it's caused by vigorous exercise.
And again I'll reiterate, for some Suvs may be the right solution but for most another vehicle is the better option. Unless we're a nation of cripples.

 

[Conscript]

I posted a link showing a clear support of the opinion I expressed as a single example. You dismissed it and my opinion without looking at the multitude of other sources to support it. An amazingly simple example of the theory is that of thrones. They are raised, most often on a form of dais, to give the occupier height above those attending them in order to cement their importance.

It may well have never crossed your mind, because it could well be sub-conscious. It may well be tatty and second-hand but why buy that vs the many other tatty second hand cars out there?

Because we had several requirements for the car when we were looking, and some of the requirements meant that the car we chose was, by simple virtue of physical design, higher riding than most. I have said before, I don't particularly like owning an SUV, I would actually prefer an estate car. But at the time of looking, I couldn't find an estate that would tow what we needed and also be able to handle light off road use on a semi-regular basis. Unfortunately, it seems that the car that fulfilled that role best happened to be...an SUV.

The fact that the driving position is higher is immaterial to me - I have only pointed out the advantages that I have noticed as a result in response to your continual claim that I, or others like me, only chose it out of a superiority complex. I didn't and I wouldn't go out of my way to choose a higher driving position, but I am offering the alternative reasons to why such a position can be attractive other than "because ego", now that I've experienced it.

We see the same excuses on here all the time where people attempt to justify them, oh I'm tall, oh I have a bad knee, oh I need space for the kids, oh I need the ground clearance, oh...but the thing is they are excuses. In almost all instances another vehicle type (typically an MPV tbh) will be a superior choice from a practical point of view to suit their needs.

The point is that they aren't excuses, Dis. They are just reasons in response to what seems to be an irrational hatred. You don't like SUVs, that's fine, but I don't see why you go out of your way to berate their owners so much.

A question...for you and others who've said this....why does someone choosing an SUV annoy you so, but an MPV, which is hardly much smaller, seem fine?
You can say they are better on fuel, or handling, etc, but really, if the owner chooses and SUV over an MPV, why does it matter to you?