Bombs sent to Obama, Clintons & CNN

[Caracus2k]

Are you drunk Caracus? I can only assume so!

You seem to be equating someone scrawling grafitti (he's an idiot and should be punished - can't believe I have to clarify a view on that, but you know...) with someone that sent 10 bombs to people through the post AND someone else who killed almost a dozen people...?

Perfectly sober.... If you read the reporting around the the chap arrested for the graphitti you will also note that he is suspect of being involved in arsons targeting Jewish targets and so is arguably more likely to have caused actual injury / death then the comedy 'pipe bombs' sent to Democrats and their supporters.

Polite was also charged with second-degree arson and second-degree reckless endangerment -- both hate crimes

And Polite's actions were enough for an event to be cancelled at the venue he targeted and for people / organisations like Cuomo and the guardian to jump straight on it as another example of the actions of a supposed trump supporter acting on Trump's rhetoric.. .

If the Polite's actions are as inconsequential as you suggest why did the Democrat Cuomo feel the need to make the following statement....

I have directed the State's Hate Crimes Task Force to investigate this hideous act and hold those responsible accountable to the full extent of the law. As governor, I am also doing everything in my power to ensure our religious institutions are free from violence and intolerance.

You know full well that if the suspect had turned out to be a person even loosely affiliated with the Republicans that the usual circle especially in SC would have made lots of noises about it so don't give me your pathetic nonsense about me making a false equivalenecy....

Am I saying this incident is just as serious as others.... No but it establishes (along with the other citited examples) a good argument for not just jumping to a partisan conclusion.

But some high profile Democrats and their sympathetic press jumped on the story early to try and tar Trump before the facts were in.... so theres were you get your move towards equivalency.

You've also created this straw man that suggests people are stating that only Trump supporters/far right viewpoints can lead to antisemitism and violence. That may be a widespread view in your mind, but it's certainly not in reality. It's a long way from the viewpoint most seem to subscribe to which is that Trumps rhetoric has increased violence and hate crime, not created it.

An outright lie. We're have I ever suggested /implied this? I suggest that people jump straight to the conclusion that's its one of Trump supporters (and others to the democratic false flag) which is all too often true. Its perfectly obvious that the left are capable of anti semitism as some people from the Labour Party have shown.

At least this thread shows the true colours of some of the posters on here. Conspiracy theory nutters....

Give one example of a conspiracy theory I have promoted? I would agree that thoose that immediately jumped on the false flag must be the answer posts and meme's are culpable here but pointing out that there are multiple realistic motivations for apparent hate / terrorist acts isn't engaging in conspiracy theories.

 

[RaohNS]

You seem to be equating someone scrawling grafitti (he's an idiot and should be punished - can't believe I have to clarify a view on that, but you know...) with someone that sent 10 bombs to people through the post AND someone else who killed almost a dozen people...?

.

But according to VincentHanna it doesn't matter because nobody was killed. The bombs (most) weren't viable and were stopped.

Lol no keep it open, I need my daily laugh and this thread with its ridiculous right wing and CT theories provides that in abundance .

Says the person who is deliriously posting in the Trump presidency thread talking about "Russian Collusion" 2yrs on on the back of an illegal process designed to help the Democrats and make it difficult for Trump, but yeah, 2yrs on 0 evidence of Russian collusion... But posters in here are wearing tin foil hats. You couldn't make it up!

 

[VincentHanna]

But according to VincentHanna it doesn't matter because nobody was killed.

Please quote me where I said that?

Oh you can't because it's a lie.

 

[Caracus2k]

Please quote me where I said that?

Oh you can't because it's a lie.

You certainly implied it in the Polite thread

(that the anti semitic graphitti and arson didnt matter or was largely inconsequential and or that 'left' wing severe violence and/ or false flags never happened)

Like that time when....ummm....that possible lefty guy nearly killed 100's!

As pointed out above none of the pipe bombs went off (even if unintentionally). Polite's actions caused quite considerable disruption and his actions were arguably more likely to cause actual harm (reckless arson).

Polite was just apprehended before he could target anyone else or any other venues.

And the end result of extreme left wing politics doesn't end up killing 100's rather millions (with extreme politics from any part of the political spectrum also being capable of mass suffering and death)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

 

[Yas786]

But according to VincentHanna it doesn't matter because nobody was killed. The bombs (most) weren't viable and were stopped.




Says the person who is deliriously posting in the Trump presidency thread talking about "Russian Collusion" 2yrs on on the back of an illegal process designed to help the Democrats and make it difficult for Trump, but yeah, 2yrs on 0 evidence of Russian collusion... But posters in here are wearing tin foil hats. You couldn't make it up!

Awww someone’s a bit triggered lol. 0 evidence of Russian collusion eh?? Are you a fortune teller that you know for certain that there is 0 evidence of Russian collusion?? The investigation hasn’t even finished lol but yeh let’s dismiss it because Mueller hasn’t actually said anything as of yet. You clearly do not know how investigations work do you??
But do keep the hilarious stupidity of your ignorance coming, like I said I enjoy a great laugh at your expense.

Back on ignore you go, had to read your reply to me because if I didn’t, it would be a missed opportunity to have my daily giggles .

 

[VincentHanna]

Well you certainly read a lot in to a few lines of text..

This is exactly how the conversation went (irrelevant quotes left out)

OK....From your link LabR@t

Before last week’s vandalism, the man appears to have been unstable. He railed against Jews in a series of Facebook posts, tagging his adopted parents. Polite posted a grainy cell-phone picture of himself burning an American flag, and wrote that a new “civil war is here.”

So mmj_uk - How is that a "Democrat false flag hate crime"?

Can you define what the alt right is? Are they white supremacists?

Not necessarily.

Not part of the narrative my good friend, so let's pretend this didn't happen and let's forgot all the other times it has happened before.

Like?

Like that time when....ummm....that possible lefty guy nearly killed 100's!

@Caracus2k - Is this some form of false equivalence or are you genuinely in agreement with IronWarrior that there are just as many left-wing terror attacks in the USA as right-wing terror attacks? And that they are all just going un-reported by the MSM?

 

[Roar87]

Did we define the alt right yet? I suppose it's better not to define it and keep it as a neat little ad hominem to throw around

 

[Freakbro]

Did we define the alt right yet?

Here you go

The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loosely connected and somewhat ill-defined[1] grouping of white supremacists/white nationalists, white separatists, anti-semites, neo-Nazis, neo-fascists, neo-Confederates, Holocaust deniers, conspiracy theorists and other far-right[2] fringe hate groups.

Seems a fairly reasonable definition, it's about as succinct as the "Leftie liberal" tag that likes to be thrown at everyone who isn't them by the alt-right

 

[Caracus2k]

Is this some form of false equivalence or are you genuinely in agreement with IronWarrior that there are just as many left-wing terror attacks in the USA as right-wing terror attacks? And that they are all just going un-reported by the MSM?

The American msm certainly undereport and tacitly condone antifa violence

National Media Under Fire For Lack Of Antifa Violence Coverage In Charlottesville, D.C.

Don Lemon defends antifa: 'No organization is perfect'

'Right wing' violence is certainly more noticeable at the moment in the US if only because there is an increased tendency for such violence to be more "lone wolf" style violence (and hence more likely to be enacted by lone mentally unstable individuals) and the US is still a country with a significant right leaning populace.

'Left wing' violence often manifests more as group action as the contemporary left are more collectivist them the contemporary right.

And because left wing contemporary violence and politics has a tendency to be more collectivist it is also far more dangerous and if left unchecked would end if far more tragic outcomes.

If the left wing Socialists, like Bernie Sanders who you are a fan of, ever get into real power the effect on the US will be far more pronounced they the death toll / disruption from some right wing nutters currently is.

 

[Roar87]

Here you go

Seems a fairly reasonable definition, it's about as succinct as the "Leftie liberal" tag that likes to be thrown at everyone who isn't them by the alt-right

Great, I did think it was to do with white supremacy. I'll be on the look out for the blatant KKK/Nazi style rhetoric that all those on the alt-right must be spewing to get that strong label.

 

[VincentHanna]

Carackus2k, The language you use is pretty laughable. I'll translate

"More noticeable" = a lot more frequent

"More collectivst" = Like Vulcans?

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?

Antifa - The one example you gave was when they turned up in Charlottesville, opposing a big group (collectivist?) of literal white-wing supremacists, which ended with a right-winger killing a girl and injuring others.

So again, you appear to be ignoring the actual murder of one side, and focusing on the violence of the other?

 

[FortuitousFluke]

If the left wing Socialists, like Bernie Sanders who you are a fan of, ever get into real power the effect on the US will be far more pronounced they the death toll / disruption from some right wing nutters currently is.

He is no more left wing than the majority of Tory politicians over here, and yet this Country hasn't erupted into a fireball of leftie violence.

 

[Freakbro]

Caracus is the biggest hand waving apologist for the insidious spread of right wing hate politics this forum currently has.

 

[Irish_Tom]

'Right wing' violence is certainly more noticeable at the moment in the US if only because there is an increased tendency for such violence to be more "lone wolf" style violence (and hence more likely to be enacted by lone mentally unstable individuals) and the US is still a country with a significant right leaning populace.

'Left wing' violence often manifests more as group action as the contemporary left are more collectivist them the contemporary right.

And because left wing contemporary violence and politics has a tendency to be more collectivist it is also far more dangerous and if left unchecked would end if far more tragic outcomes.

If the left wing Socialists, like Bernie Sanders who you are a fan of, ever get into real power the effect on the US will be far more pronounced they the death toll / disruption from some right wing nutters currently is.

The irony is that the examples you gave of 'false flag' attacks from 'the left' were examples of "lone wolf style violence enacted by lone mentally unstable individuals."

Also, if you genuinely believe that Bernie Sanders getting into power would turn the USA into some Stalinist state resulting in the extermination of millions of Americans, I think you need help.

 

[Caracus2k]

Also, if you genuinely believe that Bernie Sanders getting into power would turn the USA into some Stalinist state resulting in the extermination of millions of Americans, I think you need help.

The man said bread lines were a good thing and that the American dream was more likely to realised in Venezuela then the US in 2011 so are you so sure re that?

He is no more left wing than the majority of Tory politicians over here, and yet this Country hasn't erupted into a fireball of leftie violence.

Yes the tories go around calling themselves democratic socialists and their youth wing is full of people like that Cortez woman...

What nonsence

 

[Irish_Tom]

The man said bread lines were a good thing

Let's give it its full context shall we:

"Sometimes American journalists talk about how bad a country is, that people are lining up for food. That is a good thing. In other countries, people don’t line up for food: the rich get the food and the poor starve to death.”

This was in 1985, and he was specifically talking about his opposition to U.S. foreign policy:

'“What that was about was saying that the United States was wrong to try to invade Cuba, that the United States was wrong trying to support people to overthrow the Nicaraguan government, that the United States was wrong trying to overthrow in 1954 the democratically elected government of Guatemala.”

and that the American dream was more likely to realised in Venezuela than the US in 2011

I don't believe he has ever said this. There's a copy of an editorial piece on his website that was written by the Valley News Editorial Board which contains the quote you're referring to.

If you want to quote something that he actually said, how about this from a town hall debate in February 2016:

“When I talk about democratic socialism, I’m not looking at Venezuela. I’m not looking at Cuba. I’m looking at countries like Denmark and Sweden.”

so are you so sure re that?

100% confident.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

100% confident.

Edit - Missed a great opportunity to use the words 'Feel the Bern'

 

[VincentHanna]

Pfffft, stop bringing facts in to this debate Irish_Tom.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Yes the tories go around calling themselves democratic socialists and their youth wing is full of people like that Cortez woman...

What nonsence

I can call myself Batman but it doesn't make me a super hero. He's democratic socialist in the context of being a US politician. Why not look at some of the policies he ran with instead of throwing around labels:

• National minimum wage (well that sounds familiar)
• Tax cuts for low and middle earners (paging Mr Hammond)
• Increase in corporation tax and super high earners (Labouresque policy but still hardly Stalinist in it's severity)
• Banking reform (both labour and the tories have supported similar steps)
• Increased infrastructure spending to support jobs growth (more Labour style but hardly the start of a socialist revolution)
• Freedom of association (again Labout-lite)
• Crack down on offshore tax havens
• Supports state funded healthcare
• Wants to make higher education more affordable

Now I understand there are some nice juicy soundbites that can be taken out of context but what about his previous presidential run platform makes you think he's going to turn the US into some kind of communist super state?

 

[Caracus2k]

I don't believe he has ever said this. There's a copy of an editorial piece on his website that was written by the Valley News Editorial Board which contains the quote you're referring to.

You are literally fake news

These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?

Still 100%sure of your position and 'facts'

And to answer Bernie's question the banana republics are the age mentioned Latin countries not the US.

Pfffft, stop bringing facts in to this debate Irish_Tom.

You guys dealing in thoose 'alternative' facts?