Soldato
Funnily enough, my dad had three jobs to afford us a 3 bed semi house in the 70s/80s (postman in the morning, mechanic in the daytime, barman at night). Still, I guess he had it really easy.
Boomerang Generation
- Thread starter chris.tarry85
- Start date
Soldato
To be fair, even running with those three jobs, I don't think you'd get a 3 bed semi in most parts of the country now. Probably adds up to less than £40k. And that's assuming you're working 37.5 hour weeks each for the postman and mechanic, and 25 hours for the bar work - a 100 hour working week.
It is a solution though. I have worked 6 days a week for all the time I have been working.
Obviously the best solution would be to loosen planning permission and let people build houses where they are needed rather than preventing them from being built to keep property prices at higher and higher rates. One of the big problems with that is when you ask residents of an area if they give permission for new builds they often say no because they don't want extra traffic in the area and they don't want their property values to fall, which they will if the increase the supply.
It is a basic supply and demand issue and if you can't build a house the only other options are move or find a way to gain more capital so you can afford to buy one.
That actually causes a much bigger problem - sure they might not have kids yet but if you have a situation that means a lot of people have no choice but working 7 days a week that is going to start shaping the wider employment market and the expectations of employers and have implications for those with children or other family situations.
Personally I think a lot of social issues, though it varies a bit culture to culture, come from having the work/life balance wrong both in terms of family and mental health amongst other aspects.
Property prices are a long way from falling due to supply in most areas - most new builds the developers artificially hold the price high as well so you don't even get that forcing prices down. When they come down due to new builds it is generally due to the increased traffic and people changing the nature of the area negatively.
I disagree totally, you would not work for the same company 7 days a week. You could do 5 days at one job and 1 or 2 at another, as you gain experience and skill you generally get paid more, so after you have gained enough wage you will be able to quit the second job while still maintaining your payments. The reason for getting the second job initially is just to offset the lower pay due to lack of experience.
I should not have said fall tbh. They would increase at a lower rate relative to areas that didn't allow the extra houses to be built. Also the developers cannot decide the price of the property, the consumers do. If nobody bought the property at the prices they were asking they would be force to lower them or not make a sale at all. The reason why they can charge the higher prices is because people are willing to pay them.
The increase in traffic and people changing the nature of the area affect the houses prices, because those are desirability factors. So it is people wanting to keep the rate their property prices are increasing higher.
It still causes a distortion in the employment market as to employer expectations - if people are generally working a lot more hours/days there will be some that increasingly expect that of their employees, etc. and/or an increased expectation of people that will be looking for those extra 1-2 days.
Another reason I'm against it - kid that used to work for us was doing 5 days a week, then going on to another job for 2-3 hours 2-3 nights a week and working 6 days most weeks - few months after he left us was killed in an accident after he most likely fell asleep at the wheel and vehicle left the road.
True - all the new builds here are snapped up which gives the developer no incentive to be competitive on prices but part of that problem is that people have little choice as ultimately having a roof over your head is pretty important so you don't get the same pressures due to consumers being able to exercise not buying or buying alternatives - also no shortage of investors who make up a big proportion of those buying new builds so again enabling developers to keep the prices high.
Last edited:
Aye.
Greatest crime of the 21st century (within the 'privileged' western world at least) is that most of us will spend what, half our lives working? Tis the thing that bothers me most as I get older, not having enough leisure time to actually enjoy my life to the extent that I'd like too. Some might say that's a pretty pathetic first world problem that lacks perspective. I'd say that argument itself lacks even more perspective, but hey ho.
Amen to that.
I bought my first house in or around 1989 when interested rates were around 10%, spiking to 15% as I recall. At that stage my basic wage was £12K and my OTE was £24K. A fair wage for the time when I think the average way was around £10K-£14K (I will stand corrected). My first house was £51,995 and was a 3 bedroom detached and on my basic wage it was a huge stretch, not least with interest rates as they were. I had to stretch hugely, but I had none of the costs today people seem to put onto themselves.
No internet
No mobile phone (I had a company car phone)
No Sky, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc
No car payments (I had a company car)
But I had a house that represented close to 4.3ish times my basic wage with an interest rate HUGELY different to today. I had to make massive sacrifices and lived in a house that was furnished with hand me downs, garden furniture for seats in the dining room etc. I begged borrowed and stealed but got there. I also lived in the Midlands in an un posh part so cut my cloth accordingly. Many of my friends could not afford houses like today. Problem is people won't give up on their phones, their toys, their posh cars for only £350 a month etc etc etc. The values of houses in the south are utterly crazy, but they have not rissen like that in most places.
Life was different in 1989 but no easier I assure you. We had massively less access to the luxuries people have today. Phones, PC's, iPads, new motors for a few quid a month, interest free everything or travel to the scale and costs you can today.
No internet
No mobile phone (I had a company car phone)
No Sky, Netflix, Amazon Prime etc
No car payments (I had a company car)
But I had a house that represented close to 4.3ish times my basic wage with an interest rate HUGELY different to today. I had to make massive sacrifices and lived in a house that was furnished with hand me downs, garden furniture for seats in the dining room etc. I begged borrowed and stealed but got there. I also lived in the Midlands in an un posh part so cut my cloth accordingly. Many of my friends could not afford houses like today. Problem is people won't give up on their phones, their toys, their posh cars for only £350 a month etc etc etc. The values of houses in the south are utterly crazy, but they have not rissen like that in most places.
Life was different in 1989 but no easier I assure you. We had massively less access to the luxuries people have today. Phones, PC's, iPads, new motors for a few quid a month, interest free everything or travel to the scale and costs you can today.
That is a personal situation issue for that person overworking themselves. Of course you have to know your limits and if you can't handle it you must stop. My grandad was an English teacher and he also had a second job as a singer in working men's clubs and pubs and he often stayed up late doing this if he had a long way to travel.
Once he was moved up to deputy head of English his work load increased and after a while he was getting too tired and he decided to stop to spend more time with family and because he was now earning more from his main job and it was enough to keep up with house payments.
Now I am not suggesting someone gets a second job to keep up with the payments as my grandad did as that is a terrible idea, but if you use it to build the deposit then it can help a lot. You have to think of the second job as a saving wage rather than additional income to buy more.
Yes the lack of competition in the new house market is killing it pretty hard. Not only are the prices high, but the quality of some of these new builds are appalling. They seriously need to loosen building regulations and planning restrictions in areas where there are massive price increases to encourage competition.
Internet has become pretty much a necessity mind - where I work so much is done via Sharepoint, etc. these days, even for people who are in basic positions not just those that work from home, etc., that not having internet access pretty much means you can't do your job.
It will significantly vary depending on circumstances and how crazy people go but for me going without a reasonably nice phone, dropping Netflix, etc. makes very little material difference to whether I can afford a house or not maybe slightly add to the time taken to save a deposit, etc. but doesn't really change the affordability situation. I live in a now relatively expensive part of the south though.
EDIT: Though I do see some of what you are talking about - I know someone who complains they can't afford to move out of their parents who has a pretty nice Merc on finance that must be costing them atleast £589/m (I doubt it is the basic spec either) from a quick look on the Mercedes website and a good few grand deposit when their needs would easily be covered by a basic car.
But then if the situation is such you have to work like 7 days a week to afford to get on the housing ladder, etc. then just stopping isn't entirely an option.
Last edited:
In that case yes you would have to try something else instead. I didn't say it was the only option.
If you have enough determination to work 7 days a week, which is pretty hardcore, then I am sure you would have the drive required to get a better job or work out a way to make money more efficiently.
Instead of the second job, maybe you do a part time course in an evening to improve your skills in a area to get a better job, maybe you look at your skill set and find there is a completely different job from your current one which you would be qualified to do and the pay is higher than your current pay.
There are lots of ways to make extra money other than getting more hours or another job. They are normally not as stable though and may require some capital to start.
You could also cut some costs of things you don't need, maybe get a cheaper phone plan, different car or car insurance, maybe you could buy a bike and cycle to work, then you don't have as much fuel cost and lower insurance.
The Internet is a big advantage these days and has loads of tips for saving.
I would argue the majority of people who moan about not being able to afford a house could afford a house if they made sacrifices. Now those sacrifices could be bigger than the ones I made, such as moving 100's miles northwards and finding a new career, but they could afford a house. I think many could live where they want to live too but they will not make that sacrifice. Some simply don't earn enough to buy a house, but that was always the case and that is why they lived at home, rented or had a council house. It is hard, but it always was.
People would already and to a degree are doing many of these things within feasible levels.
What if you enjoy work?
I think that bit in bold masks a bit of a problem though - there has been a lot of wage suppression in that area a bit above minimum wage but before you break into management salaries, which is where a lot of people work, which has dramatically changed affordability.
For instance around 2001 or so I was looking at a range of basic IT support roles i.e. in schools, etc. and they paid around £15-18K and back then the terraced housing on the other side of the road I lived on, which would have been appropriate for someone on that kind of income, would sell for approx. £60K, these days that kind of role still pays around £15-22K but those houses are selling at around £170K.
Unfortunately the vast majority who complain aren't doing them to the level they could be. I could count the people I know on my hand who actually save and budget for things rather than spend it right away.
I would agree with housey it has always been hard, I think this generation just moan more than previously.
Indeed I enjoy work most of the time.
Sure but I don't think it is just moaning - 20 years ago earning the average wage for this area would have got you a mortgage pretty much bang on the average house price for the area - today the average wage for the area nets you a mortgage barely half the average house price for the area.