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Both RX Vega 64 & 56 Beat GTX 1080 Ti in Forza 7 DX12 benchmarks

Microsoft abandoned DX11 Ie killed the PC as a gaming platform. Nvidia didnt mind and planed to build cards with a Arm CPU/CPU's and DX11 forever. Games developers and AMD did mind so built a new standard. Some of these comments are loltastic even for the focus group.
 
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Kaapstad said:
Don't think so.

From a technical point of view neither AMD or NVidia were under any pressure to move away from DX11 as it did not effect the number of cards they were going to sell however good or bad the old API was.

Mantle on the other hand was used as a tool to lock NVidia out of a superior API which would have increased AMDs market share if it had worked.

The only reason DX12 has made a quick appearance is because Microsoft would have been concerned about losing control if Mantle had worked.

Business is all about making money, not doing charity or technical demos or even innovation if the vendors can avoid it, intel have been doing this for years but unfortunately for them AMD have now given them a good kick up the **** with Ryzen and some healthy competition.
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You make more money by selling more cards. Mantle was never going to gain enough traction to make a difference. So your business point does not stack up. The best Mantle could ever have done for AMD was show what there cards could do under a low level Api and show the benefits of using such an Api. AMD had something like 20-25% market share when Mantle came around. Were all the developers suddenly going to jump on this Api when Nvidia never would have used it. This answers your question right there. History shows that Mantle had no chance to become the industry standard but what it did do was show Dx11 up for it's short comings along with the benefits of low level Api's. Without Mantle the PC market would still be stuck with Dx11 and Open Gl.

To cut the story short AMD with so little market share and massively in debt never had the resources to do what you say they were trying to do. They did however do a good job with Mantle and at the very least got us low level Api's much quicker than we would have. Dx12 can be argued about but it was not being talked about until Mantle and Vulkan was no where near finished.
 
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jigger said:
Microsoft abandoned DX11 Ie killed the PC as a gaming platform. Nvidia didnt mind and planed to build cards with a Arm CPU/CPU's and DX11 forever. Games developers and AMD did mind so built a new standard. Some of these comments are loltastic even for the focus group.
Click to expand...
Does the history really matter?

Fact is dx12 has failed spectacularly thus far.

3 actual dx12 games
A handful of games where a dx12 overlay has been patched in, with varying degrees of success from woeful to excellent and it really does seem to depend on the user with no rhyme or reason for its success/failure.

Maybe it will improve in the future, maybe we'll go straight to dx13. Let's be honest only nvidia knows the answer!
 
Brazo said:
Does the history really matter?

Fact is dx12 has failed spectacularly thus far.

3 actual dx12 games
A handful of games where a dx12 overlay has been patched in, with varying degrees of success from woeful to excellent and it really does seem to depend on the user with no rhyme or reason for its success/failure.

Maybe it will improve in the future, maybe we'll go straight to dx13. Let's be honest only nvidia knows the answer!
Click to expand...

Why would only Nvidia know the answer to an API they have no control over?? lol wth Sorry Microsoft, Nvidia own DirectX now move along..
 
jigger said:
Microsoft abandoned DX11 Ie killed the PC as a gaming platform. Nvidia didnt mind and planed to build cards with a Arm CPU/CPU's and DX11 forever. Games developers and AMD did mind so built a new standard. Some of these comments are loltastic even for the focus group.
Click to expand...
Seriously? They didn't kill the PC as a gaming platform and it is doing very well. Mantle was supposed to have 47 titles iirc and only got around 10, so not whilst AMD tried to push for their users, it wasn't really heading far and hence they gave away the API to Khronos.
 
TheRealDeal said:
You make more money by selling more cards. Mantle was never going to gain enough traction to make a difference. So your business point does not stack up. The best Mantle could ever have done for AMD was show what there cards could do under a low level Api and show the benefits of using such an Api. Nvidia had something like 20-25% market share when Mantle came around. Were all the developers suddenly going to jump on this Api when Nvidia never would have used it. This answers your question right there. History shows that Mantle had no chance to become the industry standard but what it did do was show Dx11 up for it's short comings along with the benefits of low level Api's. Without Mantle the PC market would still be stuck with Dx11 and Open Gl.

To cut the story short AMD with so little market share and massively in debt never had the resources to do what you say they were trying to do. They did however do a good job with Mantle and at the very least got us low level Api's much quicker than we would have. Dx12 can be argued about but it was not being talked about until Mantle and Vulkan was no where near finished.
Click to expand...

Neither AMD or anyone on these forums would be able to know how Mantle would fair before it was launched, it is something that was worth trying as the payback could have been big.

As to whether users/game devs would go for something that the other Vendor can not use just look at G-Sync or the console format wars to get your answer.

I can not be bothered to check but I am pretty sure than NVidia's market share at the time of Mantle/290X launch was far higher than you have quoted above.
 
Brazo said:
Does the history really matter?

Fact is dx12 has failed spectacularly thus far.

3 actual dx12 games
A handful of games where a dx12 overlay has been patched in, with varying degrees of success from woeful to excellent and it really does seem to depend on the user with no rhyme or reason for its success/failure.

Maybe it will improve in the future, maybe we'll go straight to dx13. Let's be honest only nvidia knows the answer!
Click to expand...

I suspect the other problem here is neither AMD or NVidia have a fully enabled DX12 card on the market yet either.

So 3 actual games and no real DX12 cards yet.:eek:
 
Kaapstad said:
Neither AMD or anyone on these forums would be able to know how Mantle would fair before it was launched, it is something that was worth trying as the payback could have been big.

As to whether users/game devs would go for something that the other Vendor can not use just look at G-Sync or the console format wars to get your answer.

I can not be bothered to check but I am pretty sure than NVidia's market share at the time of Mantle/290X launch was far higher than you have quoted above.
Click to expand...

Kaap it's obviously a typo. AMD had 20-25% market share :D:D:D

Kaapstad said:
I suspect the other problem here is neither AMD or NVidia have a fully enabled DX12 card on the market yet either.

So 3 actual games and no real DX12 cards yet.:eek:
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So now Vega is not a full dx12 card? Explain.
 
Kaapstad said:
Neither AMD or anyone on these forums would be able to know how Mantle would fair before it was launched, it is something that was worth trying as the payback could have been big.

As to whether users/game devs would go for something that the other Vendor can not use just look at G-Sync or the console format wars to get your answer.

I can not be bothered to check but I am pretty sure than NVidia's market share at the time of Mantle/290X launch was far higher than you have quoted above.
Click to expand...

The payback on Mantle has been huge and will continue.
 
Kaapstad said:
Resource heap only goes to Tier 2 on Vega.
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This is max for that level
typedef enum D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER {
D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER_1 = 1,
D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER_2 = 2
} D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER;

D3D12_RESOURCE_HEAP_TIER_1

Indicates that heaps can only support resources from a single resource category. For the list of resource categories, see Remarks. In tier 1, these resource categories are mutually exclusive and cannot be used with the same heap. The resource category must be declared when creating a heap, using the correct D3D12_HEAP_FLAGS enumeration constant. Applications cannot create heaps with flags that allow all three categories.

More info what each Tier needs to get the full level 3 - VEGA supports them all
WJGR3JU.jpg
 
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