Petrol tanks for 20 or 30 year old cars have been shown to be completely clean inside when removed from older cars. It’s very rare to get any sort of contaminants in fuel. There are multiple filters and my first car had the fuel filter out at one point to investigate a rough idle. It was 13 years old at the time. Not even a little bit of dirt.
Branded v Supermarket fuel
- Thread starter Merlin5
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Caporegime
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dirty fuel is a myth. i am referring to carbon build up from combustion of the fuel. this happens with all fuels just premium ones have better additives to clean them or help reduce the amount of carbon in the first place.
Soldato
That's just as speculative as people saying "I've always used supermarket fuel and it's fine" though, isn't it? It's a cheap used car, you have no way of knowing what fuel it's been run on before, and to what extent that fuel has contributed to the EGR condition. Maybe with supermarket fuel you have to clean the EGR every 80k and with Shell fuel every 95K, or maybe there's only a 5K difference, or no difference whatsoever. It's a completely impossible thing to measure unless you're running two cars from new, on two different fuels, in the same driving conditions, up to the same mileage. Add that to the fact that virtually nobody is able to run their car on the same exact kind of premium fuel for the lifetime of the car and the whole thing seems a bit pointless on a cheap used car.
I never said that all fuels were the same, I'm well aware that different fuels have different additives and cleaning properties. My point is that it's a cheap used car that he's probably not going to keep for the next 20 years and is sold all over the world in markets where the fuel is considerably poorer quality than UK supermarket fuel. If that particular model has issues with clogged EGRs then buy it, clean the EGR properly yourself, then continue driving, safe in the knowledge that whatever fuel you use, it's not going to get clogged up again while you still have the car.
That's a bit of a worry then. My Auris is on 98K, does that mean I need to get the EGR cleaned asap and is it expensive? Or is it a bit alarmist and I don't need to bother?
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Permabanned
So if we are at a common agreement that premium is better for your engine long term due to the cleaning benefits, where are we on additives like millers eco max?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/EcoMax-Mil...itive&qid=1587104541&sprefix=millers+d&sr=8-4
https://www.amazon.co.uk/EcoMax-Mil...itive&qid=1587104541&sprefix=millers+d&sr=8-4
Caporegime
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I suggest you go read the prius, auris and ct200h forums for head gasket failures i think it is which it causes. which is far more expensive than getting the EGR cleaned.
it's not a matter of if it will happen it's just a matter of when.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sea...s+EGR+and+EGR+Cooler+Cleanings+for+P0401+Code
plenty of videos on youtube so you can see how blocked they get, when they get fully blocked is when the head gasket goes it's always the number 3 gasket as well apparently or something like that.
https://priuschat.com/threads/what-is-the-chief-cause-of-head-gasket-failure-on-the-gen-3.188551/
there is an example of a thread.
i would get it cleaned by an indy mechanic. show him the youtube tutorial videos and say that is what you want done. how much? then i'd ask if i could watch to see exactly how much crud is in it. if it's a lot of crud then you know you want it done again in say 60K miles. if it's not a lot of crud I'd maybe leave it for 80-100K miles.
it's the only big bill you should really need to do and it's once every 100K miles. so not the end of the world. should be less than £300 IMO. it's all labour intensive. a decent mechanic for 4-6 hours. I'd expect my local indy to do it for £200 and I would supply him with 5 cans of brake cleaner and some wire brushes
i'd also try and use BP fuel where possible as Simon works there and he can testify it's decent and they spend a ton of money making it that good. you already get high MPG so spending a little more on a tank is nothing IMO. iirc it's £40 for 400 miles in mine and I believe the auris is better and the prius even more so. Mine is 100 percent city stop start driving too.
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I just joined a toyota forum and asked them about the EGR and basically what you were saying including the cars you mentioned. I got this reply:
'That's good advice, but not at all relevant to your engine type, year and model ! That can be an issue on the later hybrid models (as you've listed above), but they are 1.8 engines, I've never heard of this on a 1.6! The 1.6 engine is a good one.'
Tesco Momentum or Shell V Power in my MR2 Turbo, same when it had an NA engine. Not fussed which, really makes no difference either way. Using both about equally, my NA engine at ~180k was very clean internally.; Some carbon buildup on the pistons but for 180k miles it wasn't bad.
Caporegime
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argh you didn't mention the specific engine. yeah i'm talking about the 1.8 litre engine hybrid.
Ok no worries matey, we're on the same page now and at least my mind is at rest about the EGR!
One thing the toyota bloke did mention to me though was that it might be worth me checking the rear steel brake pipes that go behind the fuel tank for future MOT purposes, apparently they do rust.
Soldato
I silently lurk on those forums occasionally since inheriting an Auris Hybrid a few months ago. They do seem to know what they're talking about over there, a number of Toyota techs quietly frequent the forums.
Dad was running it on supermarket fuel, I've been sticking Shell or Esso in to clean the crap out. If it's within a couple of pence a litre of the supermarket that's fine by me.
V-Power is probably overkill for a white good car.
Dad was running it on supermarket fuel, I've been sticking Shell or Esso in to clean the crap out. If it's within a couple of pence a litre of the supermarket that's fine by me.
V-Power is probably overkill for a white good car.
Made me laugh
Associate
An underlying fault with the car.
But the fuel was enough of an impact to highlight it. Rather than ‘it’s all the same mate’
Associate
Hardly a conclusive test measurement though. I understand you know this segment of the market far greater than everyone else, but if supermarket fuel didn’t meet a certain standard every mk6 fiesta would throw up a warning light.
I doubt the fiesta mentioned above has evolved into a fuel connoisseur.
That's because it's a myth.
Petrol/Diesel pumps have filters in them, precisely so that if any crud ever makes it into the tanks it cannot then get to the customers.
You do realise you're essentially saying that we should ignore all the advice from all the independent/unbiased experts over the years who always say that there's nothing wrong with supermarket fuel/etc.Posters in this thread need to read and understand Simon's posts. In this case we need to defer to the real experts. Armchair experts please take note.
And instead just pay attention to this one expert who's saying to buy his employers product because it is superior, right?
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Caporegime
Definitely not a myth. I've seen a filter so badly contaminated that it collapsed due to vacuum induced by the pump.