Soldato
Bwahahaha 
Brazilian Grand Prix 2010, Interlagos Circuit - Race 18/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
Don't get you, to back Vettel and Co. up before he then has to pit himself?
Soldato
Problem with that is that he has to qualify on hard tyres and if he is well back from the front he will lose a lot of time in the first laps up to the first pitstop that the Red Bulls might even pit and still be in front of him.
That's a good plan. The only problem is that Massa is not fast enough to be able to take the lead, even after the leaders have had their pit stop.
Typically, RBR cars can take their first pit stops and come out ahead of everybody else, with their lead still in tact. Unless Massa ups his game, he wont be able to assist Alonso, in the way you have described.
People talk about Massa as Alonso's rear gunner - this almost never works, unless the lead driver has a superior car, such that the team can dictate the race.
The plan you have described though, is something which as a team, I would be thinking about. Worst case scenario would be the Massa is unable to lead the race and Alonso has to get the job done by himself (which is likely to be the case anyway).
I think there are a lot of Alonso haters in here and they are simply willing Alonso's engine to blow up.
The truth is that since the early part of the season (when Ferrari fixed their engine problem), Ferrari have had good engine reliability.
Alonso is an intelligent guy and I'm sure he will do his best to go easy on the engine, where possible, during the race. In fairness, Alonso is due to have an engine expire on him, so I shall be keeping my fingers crossed for him in A.Dhabi.
I've said this before, but Webber winning the title will devalue the WDC. Webber does not belong in the same category as Senna, MSc, Mansell, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Alonso, etc. These drivers are all top line drivers. I would much rather Vettel or Alonso win the title as they are both top line drivers.
The Brits tend to like underdogs, so I totally understand why there is support for Webber.
Didn't you say that last year with JB,
Who ever wins it deserves, there is no devaluation going on. Webber won;t be in the same league as them. They all won multiple times.
ok fair enough
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To be fair your comment "who knows what LH could have done" seemed to imply he could have won in Italy - I think he would have struggled for 5th place imo , still 10 points (or possibly more) from where he is now but I dont think it would have made any difference to his championship though - pure guestimation on my part admittedly
have no idea at all why LH would have been magically significantly faster the next day to "breeze" past anyone - let alone two cars and drivers who were at the top of their game on that day
Also no reason at all for McLaren to force a switch with their drivers being so close in the championship at that point, and LH being significantly slower in q3 (1/2 sec) and q2
anyway its all hyperthetical
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But if LH didn't push then he wouldn't be a WDC and he wouldn't have nearly as many points this year as he has.
This is why what IF, DNF and reliability is pointless to wonder. Everything affects everything else and the only thing that matters is the points at the end of the season.
This is why what IF, DNF and reliability is pointless to wonder. Everything affects everything else and the only thing that matters is the points at the end of the season.
Reubens moaned because he legitimately couldnt keep up in most of the races in the same equipment
For all we know if Reubens had been faster - for whatever reason - JB could have pushed harder when out front also (from qualifying further up , which is what he was doing most of the time early last season compared to his teammate)
Whether you like it or not (even Martin Brundle said in the commentary or on his BBC blog) Massa still had a chance at the title in Germany - which is why it stunk to high heaven when Massa was ordered to give away the race win.
a lot more famous people are saying the title will be tainted if Ferrari /FA win it, I will be hoping for MW to win it from the front
Soldato
Ah yes, I forgot that beating your teammate fair and square to win a championship isn't as deserved as getting a teammate to pull over and gift you extra points....
I'm not against team orders, but I'm against judgement on Webber like this. He's been cracking this year - beating wonderboy Vettel fair and square in the championship without having the team move Vettel over, and in some cases having a *lower* spec car (Webber's words - not bad for a number 2 driver)
With luck Alonso will qualify top, and Webber will beat him in the race on skill in order to give him some value in your eyes.
If you look back at my posts last year, after JB had won 6 out of 7 races, I clearly stated that he deserved to win the title, even when he was faltering in the second half of the season. Winning 6 out of 7 races, is a feat, I believe which has only been achieved by MSc (I think) and that is a feat worthy of a World Champion.
So, in a single word, "no".
When a driver does well, I call it. When he does badly, I call it. When a driver does well, you will never see me berating him.
Even though Webber has raised his game and done well this year, I am not saying he is a bad driver. He just isn't of the same calibre of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, MSc, Senna, etc. These aforementioned drivers are top line drivers who would walk into a team and immediately be installed as the No.1 driver (or joint No.1). If Webber were partnered by Hamilton, Alonso, Senna, etc, at no point would Webber have No.1 or joint No.1 status. As we have seen at RBR, they do not feel that Webber is worthy of No.1 (or joint No.1) status and even now, when Vettel has only a small chance of winning the title, RBR are refusing to order Vettel (their No.1 driver) to yield to Webber.
How can you have a World Champion who is consistently being given a beating by his team-mate (Vettel)? Webber is effectively being rewarded for his car not breaking down and not for his outstanding performances.
Not fair and square. Vettel has had car failures while leading races. He has dropped points because of car failures. Webber is only leading Vettel because his car isn't breaking down in the same way that Vettel's is.
Don't get me wrong, Webber is not a bad driver. I've never said he was. He is decent. But my belief is that the World Champion status, should only be reserved for top of the line drivers, or drivers who have beaten their team-mates consistently over the course of the season. Webber has not done this. Webber has capitalised on Vettel's car failures and as a result is leading him in the points standings.
A world champion should win the title because he beat his team-mate (and other cars) and not because his team-mate's car kept breaking down.
Soldato
So because Webber isn't a carbreaker like Vettel he doesn't deserve the title?
So reserving the champion status to specific drivers. Maybe we should sit you down with Bernie and come up with some way of crowning people based on whether you think they're good with some Medals thrown in for some pointless measure.
Rather than the straight forward and perfectly reasonable "who scored most points is the best" that has worked for the entire history of F1?
Associate
Sunama seems to live in some dreamworld where the best driver and best car win the championship every year, unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Webber not deserving the title because Vettels car has broken down more is absolutely ridiculous.
If driver1 and driver2 are team-mates.
driver1 beats driver2, in a straight fight, 70-80% of the time.
However, driver1's car keeps breaking down.
driver2 wins the title.
How is driver2 deserving of the title when driver1 (when his car wasn't breaking down), was beating driver2 the vast majority of times? driver1 was clearly superior.
Now, let driver1 = Vettel and driver2 = Webber.
Webber could well win the title. IMO he has to be favourite as the RBR car is head and shoulders above the rest. For me, this isn't right, but it could well happen.
driver1 beats driver2, in a straight fight, 70-80% of the time.
However, driver1's car keeps breaking down.
driver2 wins the title.
How is driver2 deserving of the title when driver1 (when his car wasn't breaking down), was beating driver2 the vast majority of times? driver1 was clearly superior.
Now, let driver1 = Vettel and driver2 = Webber.
Webber could well win the title. IMO he has to be favourite as the RBR car is head and shoulders above the rest. For me, this isn't right, but it could well happen.
In general, the best driver/car package do in fact win the title.
In the last few years, the only time this hasn't happened was in 2007, when Alonso, Hamilton and McLaren made an absolute mess of their title challenge. It is very rare that this happens.
Before 2007, I can't remember the last time that the best driver/car package did not win the title.