Brazilian Grand Prix 2010, Interlagos Circuit - Race 18/19

[dannyjo22]

Or the standing is Vettel, Webber, Alonso with 5 laps to go and RB make the switch, one lap after that Alonso blows his engine and RB want to switch again so Vettel wins but Webber refuses and they crash again leaving Hammy to walk away with the championship

That would be funny, if they made the switch and then Alonso retired. I think it will be sad if Hamilton wins the title, he hasn't driven well enough as the pressure has built towards the end of the season. Where Vettel and Alonso have gotten stronger the other two have faltered.

 

[Dutch Guy]

I think it will be sad if Hamilton wins the title, he hasn't driven well enough as the pressure has built towards the end of the season. Where Vettel and Alonso have gotten stronger the other two have faltered.

I disagree, Hamilton has done everything possible but if the car isn't fast enough that's it.

In the beginning of the season they had the advantage of the F-Duct, now most, if not all teams, have it and the advantage is gone.

 

[Duke]

Hamilton's had the slowest car out of the three teams so hasn't done too bad tbh.

 

[Cavallino]

I disagree, Hamilton has done everything possible but if the car isn't fast enough that's it.

In the beginning of the season they had the advantage of the F-Duct, now most, if not all teams, have it and the advantage is gone.

As was the case with the double diffuser last year.


Notice how after the 6th or 7th race Button never won another race (same time that everyone adapted the double diffuser).

But Button didnt squander his chances in the latter half of the season as Hamilton has done. Ok granted there are more protagonists in competitive cars.

 

[Cavallino]

Hamilton's had the slowest car out of the three teams so hasn't done too bad tbh.

In Singapore he was faster than Webber. Not to mention beging the fastest car in many grand prixs this year.
The slowest of the three this year has been the Ferrari. Ask anyone and they will say the same. Its only in the last 5 or 6 races (and the odd one during the year) that the Ferraris have come alive. Hell even in Singapore, Vettel was faster than Alonso, but Alonso kept him at bay.

 

[drunkenmaster]

In Singapore he was faster than Webber. Not to mention beging the fastest car in many grand prixs this year.
The slowest of the three this year has been the Ferrari. Ask anyone and they will say the same. Its only in the last 5 or 6 races (and the odd one during the year) that the Ferraris have come alive. Hell even in Singapore, Vettel was faster than Alonso, but Alonso kept him at bay.

Ferrari has almost always been faster than Alonso, he won the first race of the year, consistantly outqualifys Hamilton in the later stages(maybe not earlier).

Likewise to call the F-duct the advantage in the early stage of the season, it really wasn't. Last year you had Brawn, then no one else close, this year you had Red Bull, Ferrari WAY closer than last year but still noticeably behind them and McClaren, a car that itself was a distant 3rd but with the f-duct became a very close 3rd, maybe joint 2nd fastest car. As the other cars got the F-duct and other improvements happened, McClaren became a more distinctly 3rd placed car.

Hamilton also hasn't given up points, well in one race the crash was totally his fault, but there was still reason for his madness. To win the title Hamilton had to put his car FAR closer to the edge than either Red Bull or Alonso had to, those guys going round at a pushing it, but not 99.9% limit speed wise would match the McClaren absolutely on the limit.

If Hamilton wasn't pushing THAT hard, he also would be roughly where Button is now, but remember if he lost points he only gained by driving that close to the edge, the 3 above him gain those points so the gap would be much closer.

If he was driving much safer, he wouldn't have crashed a couple times, but he'd also be a couple wins further down on where he is. The cars just not there.

Red Bull should have done a Button from last year, and if they had a clear no 2 probably would have, and won the first 7/8 races, and several more since.

Hamilton's been the best driver by a margin I think this year, with no where near the best car. Alonso's been the second best driver in the second best car, and Webber/Vettel have been really quite poor, in by FAR the best car and have almost thrown away a title no one else should have been involved in at all.

 

[Cavallino]

Ferrari has almost always been faster than Alonso...

You will forgive me for not reading the rest of your post... I'm sure you will understand why

 

[dannyjo22]

In Singapore he was faster than Webber. Not to mention beging the fastest car in many grand prixs this year.
The slowest of the three this year has been the Ferrari. Ask anyone and they will say the same. Its only in the last 5 or 6 races (and the odd one during the year) that the Ferraris have come alive. Hell even in Singapore, Vettel was faster than Alonso, but Alonso kept him at bay.

I agree, Mclaren profitted a lot as well from Red Bull failures/mistakes early on because the car was 2nd fastest.

After all Massa has been nowhere apart fro one given up race win, he's been nowhere near challenging a Mclaren, even the one of Jenson.

People are taking the last 5 races and all of a sudden saying the mclaren was 3rd fastest. They threw and had taken off them an awful lot of points in the last 5 or 6 races.

 

[FrankJH]

It was clear who brawn wanted to win the title just as much as it's clear red bull want Vettel. They chimped Rubens with strategy early on in the season when JB was racking up wins.

Rubens went public and they then let him have a shout. Rubens knew when he looked at the numbers they were stopping him winning and giving JB the fastest route. Rubens way would only ever work if the race went perfectly.

I don't care about ferraris team order with massa purely because massa isn't fast enough anyway and they all do it. Yep it was more blatant but I don't live in this bubble where I excuse it if I know it's happening but not blatant.

Ferraris only mistake for me is not moving Massa out the way at earlier races where he was holding up Alonso. When alonso made up multiple postions or was even faster with a damaged car. Would there have been any fuss then?

Of course there wouldn't because it was for minor points places, just like no one here has ranted about MS moving over to let his faster team mate have a go in the last race.

RB couldnt get the car to work as effectively - there is no reason at all that Brawn (himself) would scupper a race early in the season, dont be ridiculous

JB outraced him 9/10 times, and the only time he didnt (apart from a 1 -2 in RB's favour) Rubens had a "perfect" race - thats a coincidence and a 1/2

RB just wasnt that consistant, and after a tough time he moaned to the press

The whole point was that Massa WAS fast enough in Germany (like RB in a couple of places ) and should have been able to win that early in the season, Brawn didnt gift a 1-2 to Button that he hadnt already worked for, ffs even last weekend it was Very marginal that Button didnt come out of the pits ahead of LH after the stops - that would have been a gain of 7 places in about 16 laps or something , certainly proves (again if its needed) that its possible to do that with the right mentality and skill - which RB didnt have for majority of last year

Massa Deserved to be able to win Germany on merit - the fact he wasnt is a big factor in some demoralising displays since then. Alonso blatantly didnt. If Ferrari coincide a NECESSARY pitstops with the laps Alonso would be "overtaking" Massa, then thats a reasonable team tactic as has always gone on. Being ordered to slow down (when you are leading) to allow your teammate to pass you on the track is COMPLETELY differeent

I guess you are blatantly ignoring how early it was in the season so that you can "legitimately" put in about the Mercedes swap......at the 2nd last race of the season. Also Massa was as fast as Alonso on that day in Germany, - completely different to MS holding up a faster team mate (apart from the fact few people bet on lower placings than on the winner/podiums)

 

[Cavallino]

People are taking the last 5 races and all of a sudden saying the mclaren was 3rd fastest. They threw and had taken off them an awful lot of points in the last 5 or 6 races.

Exactly, but more to the point. if you look at 2 of the last 5 races. Yes the Ferraris were competitive but:

1. Italy - Jenson was a whisker of keeping P1 to Alonso. Who knows what Hamilton could have done had he not messed up on the first lap. Mclaren had a car that was capable of winning here.
2. Singapore - Hamilton was faster than Webber. Yes you read right. Faster than a RB (after all how can anyone forget what happened to Webber/Hamilton). And yet Vettel was gaining on Alonso all the time but could not pass him. Mclaren had a car which was capable of winning here, but they got stuffed in quali and mid-race.

 

[FrankJH]

But Button didnt squander his chances in the latter half of the season as Hamilton has done. Ok granted there are more protagonists in competitive cars.

Not really - at the end of the season both RB and McLaren were capable of winning races (ie taking points from JB) - so while McLaren werent in the Championship fight they were still essential to RB's hopes as it were

McLaren isnt capable of winning this year (at the end of the season) so there are three drivers in two teams capable of winning again... they are just all fighting for the Championship this time

Exactly, but more to the point. if you look at 2 of the last 5 races. Yes the Ferraris were competitive but:

1. Italy - Jenson was a whisker of keeping P1 to Alonso. Who knows what Hamilton could have done had he not messed up on the first lap. Mclaren had a car that was capable of winning here.
.

JB proved that the F-Duct was king in Italy - which Lewis didnt have on the car. Lewis wouldnt have kept up with Alonso in the slightest, he wouldnt have had a chance at all!!

 

[Cavallino]

Not really - at the end of the season both RB and McLaren were capable of winning races (ie taking points from JB) - so while McLaren werent in the Championship fight they were still essential to RB's hopes as it were

You misunderstood. Im saying that JB didnt squander points at the end of the season IN 2009, compared to how Hamilton has squandered points at the end of the season in 2010. E.g. 3 DNFs at races he should have been competitive.

JB proved that the F-Duct was king in Italy - which Lewis didnt have on the car. Lewis wouldnt have kept up with Alonso in the slightest, he wouldnt have had a chance at all!!

Again you misread what I said here. My point wasnt whether Hamilton could have won the race but rather the MCLAREN car. I.e. it was suggested above that the Mclaren was the third best car on the grid in the latter part of the season. This race clearly contradicts that. Its more accurate to say that the Mclaren is not as far in the last 2 or 3 races. But that is definitely not analogus to the entire season as has been suggested by some.

 

[deko]

Not really - at the end of the season both RB and McLaren were capable of winning races (ie taking points from JB) - so while McLaren werent in the Championship fight they were still essential to RB's hopes as it were

McLaren isnt capable of winning this year (at the end of the season) so there are three drivers in two teams capable of winning again... they are just all fighting for the Championship this time



JB proved that the F-Duct was king in Italy - which Lewis didnt have on the car. Lewis wouldnt have kept up with Alonso in the slightest, he wouldnt have had a chance at all!!

We never got a chance to see how Hamiltons race would have worked out in Italy. Without the F-Duct, his car was fast enough in a straight line that he could have breezed past Button like he was standing still.

 

[Dave M]

We never got a chance to see how Hamiltons race would have worked out in Italy. Without the F-Duct, his car was fast enough in a straight line that he could have breezed past Button like he was standing still.

I think if he'd not stuffed it he'd have got past massa and Mclaren would have tried to get him past Alonso at the pit stops.

I'd have expected them to work out a clever strategy with the two drivers to get Hamilton in front, then totally stuff it up because Mclaren are useless at strategy and pit stops.

 

[Jono8]

I can't wait for this race. It is all set up to be uber dramatic.

A part of me would love it if there are a few laps remaining and Vettel gives way to Webber, only for Alonso to have a problem and then not finish!

Although in fairness, Red Bull will probably wait for the last lap until they swap if it is infact 1.Vettel, 2.Webber, 3.Alonso.

 

[Type_R]

Funny how everyone is predicting that Alonso's engine will blow up, when actually I think I am right in saying the last engine to blow up in a race was Vettel's!!

 

[utajoker]

Funny how everyone is predicting that Alonso's engine will blow up, when actually I think I am right in saying the last engine to blow up in a race was Vettel's!!

we all know alonsos is well over due

 

[Cavallino]

...because Mclaren are useless.

Corrected

 

[dannyjo22]

RB couldnt get the car to work as effectively - there is no reason at all that Brawn (himself) would scupper a race early in the season, dont be ridiculous


I guess you are blatantly ignoring how early it was in the season so that you can "legitimately" put in about the Mercedes swap......at the 2nd last race of the season.

No where in the rules does it have a note saying when it acceptable to let your team mate by. It doesn't state which race it's ok or anything about mathmatics.

As for Brawn they did scupper Rubens last year in one of the early races JB won. They gave him the slower pitstop option when he clearly would have beaten Jenson had they give him the faster route.

Thats when Rubens moaned. Everyone could see they stiffed Rubens but no-one cared because JB won.

 

[Outcast]