Brazilian Grand Prix 2012, São Paulo - Race 20/20

MooMoo444 · 30 Nov 2012 at 22:35

arknor said:
kimi seemed very conservative imo there were times during races where grosjean made him look like a sunday driver if you were watching live timing

better to be a sunday driver and bring it home than bin it in the back of someone

413x · 30 Nov 2012 at 23:40

arknor said:
kimi seemed very conservative imo there were times during races where grosjean made him look like a sunday driver if you were watching live timing

This why i hope lotus keep grojean. Hes got pace

Duke · 3 Dec 2012 at 08:25

drunkenmaster · 3 Dec 2012 at 09:57

arknor said:
kimi seemed very conservative imo there were times during races where grosjean made him look like a sunday driver if you were watching live timing

There were other times when the reverse is true, and multiple times through the same race where they were fast at different times. I think it was in that race where he couldn't get past Lewis in the final third of the race, that Grosjean looked crazy fast at first, then Kimi closed, passed him and pressed on for the win while Grosjean dropped miles back.

Ultimately drivers like different strategies, okay amount of stops and which tyres you start on is likely the same(if both in Q3), but almost everyone uses various engine/fuel modes at different stages of a race to save fuel, put almost any car out there in fuel saving mode vs same car in max speed mode and they'll look vastly different in speed at that stage, but it will likely be the reverse for the same amount of time elsewhere in the race.

The Lotus was fast, but seemed to take a little to long getting new development parts to click into gear so they would have a few races not really competitive, then a few really good races.

AS for Alonso being ahead, I'd fairly sure that if Hamilton/Vettel's cars had died in 5 or 6 different races where Alonso was 5th or lower and it was Kimi who was running in 2nd/3rd, then he could easily have been 70 points ahead of Alonso. I really can't see the brilliant Alonso season some others see, most of his huge point gains came off others bad luck, he's a great driver, I just don't see this season being epic for him. As said, if Hamilton/Vettel had reliability problem in 5 alternate races, ALonso would likely have been no where.

Grosjean DID massively underscore his car though, he was miles and miles behind Kimi despite in many races being as fast and a few he was even faster, Valencia was one that wasn't his fault, but he was running for a good points finish. All the races where contact has caused him to drop points, had he not done so he had a car to get plenty of extra points and also in doing so, deny others some of their points. Lotus should really have been in the WCC fight for second, but for Grosjean hitting everything out there which moved.... they would have been right in the fight, would they have gotten it, who knows.

Spuj · 3 Dec 2012 at 10:17

So if you had to make the decision of keeping him because you know he has good potential and pace and hope that his 'race craft' improves or binning him for a more reliable driver, which would you take?

Guerrilla · 3 Dec 2012 at 10:28

Spuj1988 said:
So if you had to make the decision of keeping him because you know he has good potential and pace and hope that his 'race craft' improves or binning him for a more reliable driver, which would you take?

I think the problem for Grosjean is there are quite a few drivers looking for a drive and the Lotus was a decent car so it'll be highly sought after.

I would imagine they'll end up keeping him, Lotus are probably just using this as an oppotunity to get more money out of it.

elmuzzy66. · 3 Dec 2012 at 12:45

He is also french which helps and theres talk of a french gp to. I would think renualt will keep him 1 more year.

413x · 3 Dec 2012 at 13:42

Spuj1988 said:
So if you had to make the decision of keeping him because you know he has good potential and pace and hope that his 'race craft' improves or binning him for a more reliable driver, which would you take?

Keep

Lotus won't be challenging for the win next year without a few risks. (I guess you never know)
I just think it's easier to improve his problems than someone lacking raw talent. I like KK but I dunno, sometimes he is good sometimes dire

Skeeter · 3 Dec 2012 at 14:19

True. When KK doesn't do well its because he isn't good enough. When Grosjean doesn't do well its because he screwed something up. Its easier to train out bad habbits than it is to train in more skill.

Its just a question of wether Grosjean has already done to much damage to his own chances.

FrankJH · 3 Dec 2012 at 17:51

Setroc said:
What exactly brings you to the conclusion that the lotus was the 4th best car this year? Looking at quali results, Grosjean put the lotus in the top 5 on 7 occassions. To put this in perspective, Lewis managed it 14 times, seb managed it 10 times, and Alonso managed it 4 times.

edit: what I find impressive is alonso finishing 70 points ahead of kimi in what I consider roughly equivalent machinery despite kimi's perfect record on finishing races.

Just because the lotus is good in qualifying is irrelevant (at least until they give points out for quali pace).

Cavallino · 4 Dec 2012 at 20:55

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104723

Love or hate Bernie, I cannot but help admire the way the guys mind works especially at the age of 82.

And this really socked it to Luca I believe.

"I'm 82 and nobody can deny that. But time ago I used to discuss things with an 88-year-old gentleman when Luca was a 40-year-old. His name was Enzo Ferrari."

Duke · 4 Dec 2012 at 21:03

Gotta love Bernie ^

Race edit is up - http://www.formula1.com/video/?uid=2012112520R

MarcLister · 4 Dec 2012 at 21:03

Well played Bernie, well played! :cool:

Duke · 8 Dec 2012 at 09:14

Quick season review - http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/24442/8285680

Aeleys · 9 Dec 2012 at 03:24

NightSt@lk3r said:
Love F1 threads on this forum, so much entertainment!

i only read a few pages but +1 lol

More entertainment than most races! :eek:

Some people get overly attached to teams/sports though.

I'm not a fan of any team or person in any sport. i watch it for entertainment.

I prefer some to others, but wouldn't call myself a fan by a long shot.