Brazilian Grand Prix 2015, São Paulo - Race 18/19

[pastymuncher]

One of what used to be my favourite tracks of the year reduced to a very boring race.

I did flinch when Verstappen thought about going up the inside of Nasr though. I thought the wing was going to come off there before he thought better of it.

 

[Flibster]

Massa excluded from the race results due to tyre temperature/pressure before the start of the race.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

lame old race, shame Lewis couldn't stick behind, but you have to tip your hat to rosberg recently, seems to have got his head sorted and racing well

Yup, just a shame it was as soon as the championship was over.

Could make next season more interesting - I am still not convinced Lewis has the hunger at the moment though now it is all wrapped up.

 

[utajoker]

Mercedes have everything sown up then should let the drivers try different things. make a race of it.

Same car same strategy, car in front wins, simple really. They get the extra time for pitting first and the 2nd car uses up its tyres catching up.

 

[~Mike~]

What a boring race.

 

[Steeps]

Massa excluded from the race results due to tyre temperature/pressure before the start of the race.

Just proves what a joke the FIA "safety" message is. These pressures/temp tests were brought in to stop abusing the limits of the tyres on safety grounds, yet the car is allowed to start the race with race control aware the car is "unsafe".

Instead of excluding the driver at the end, they should be black/orange flagged and ordered to change to another set of the same softness, used qualifying tyres at the end of the parade lap and start from the pitlane.

 

[Skeeter]

Just proves what a joke the FIA "safety" message is. These pressures/temp tests were brought in to stop abusing the limits of the tyres on safety grounds, yet the car is allowed to start the race with race control aware the car is "unsafe".

Instead of excluding the driver at the end, they should be black/orange flagged and ordered to change to another set of the same softness, used qualifying tyres at the end of the parade lap and start from the pitlane.

This. A rule imposed on safety grounds that they then don't stop someone racing if they breach it is utterly pathetic.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

BBC F1 said Massa's tyre blanket was as much as +25C over what it should have been (hence the pressure difference). Any truth to this?

 

[Flibster]

They let Bottas run with 1 option tyre and 3 prime tyres a couple of races ago. Got a drive through. Wasn't told to come in a change tyres.

BBC F1 said Massa's tyre blanket was as much as +25C over what it should have been (hence the pressure difference). Any truth to this?

Massa's tyre was 27°C above the maximum allowed, but the pressure was only 0.1psi over the minimum. So if it was at a legal temperature, it would have been under the minimum pressure. But that's not the issue, it's that it was 27°C over the maximum temperature.

 

[Skeeter]

BBC F1 said Massa's tyre blanket was as much as +25C over what it should have been (hence the pressure difference). Any truth to this?

You'd hope so, given that he's been disqualified for exactly that.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Ok, I was asking if there was a reliable source. I don't trust the BBC commentary and I've been out of the house since the race finished.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Flibster]

Aaaaaand Williams are appealing.

Claiming that the FIA's measurement was wrong. They've got 3 measurements and other data that shows they didn't exceed the temperature limit, including a measurement device that is the same model that the FIA use.

 

[Hodders]

Aaaaaand Williams are appealing.

Claiming that the FIA's measurement was wrong. They've got 3 measurements and other data that shows they didn't exceed the temperature limit, including a measurement device that is the same model that the FIA use.

I have watched F1 since the early 80s when I was in my early teens.

I have watched 4 races this season.

The sport is dead on it's feet. I want to see:

Drivers with personalities - think Hunt, Giles Villeneuve

Racing cars - the clue is in the adjective. Arguing about flipping tire pressure - come ON. From next year trading standards should insist on them being called "mobile advert corporate boring following each other" cars.

My gut feeling is:

BAN radio comms unless a matter of safety. Make the drivers decide on tire wear, fuel use, when to come in.

Ban refuelling, ban tire changes. The tires should degrade safely. Make grip disappear before structural safety. Or make the tires last long enough that wear is just not an issue.

Get rid or DRS - stop and think about what it actually is - a totally artificial method of making overtaking happen. It's mad.

By limiting fuel (no refuelling) you allow drivers to use the energy as and when they want to. They will have an overtake button but if they use it to often they will run out of fuel.

Lastly overtaking. Dirty air is the problem here. Allow them to use downforce that is less dependant on clean air. Skirts and smaller wings. Or even allow the driver to alter aero as they drive. If you are following you get innate drag reduction cos of the tow. Trade that for some extra downforce to allow closer following.

I've had a ramble - some of it will be tosh - what do you guys think !

 

[Nismo]

what do you guys think !

Standard list of "fixes" that everyone comes up with after a poor race resulting in "OMG F1 is DEAD" reactions. Oh, and refuelling has been banned since 2010.

People seem to forget that dull races have always happened, and that not every event was 70 laps of balls to the floor, wheel to wheel racing.

 

[Skeeter]

Standard list of "fixes" that everyone comes up with after a poor race resulting in "OMG F1 is DEAD" reactions. Oh, and refuelling has been banned since 2010.

This. Standard 1 side of the coin rant. For example, if you remove DRS, what are you going to implement to replace it? DRS, as much as people love to hate on it, it solves a problem. Without DRS there is no overtaking in F1.

 

[Hodders]

Standard list of "fixes" that everyone comes up with after a poor race resulting in "OMG F1 is DEAD" reactions. Oh, and refuelling has been banned since 2010.

I know ! Just saying it again to underline the idea of using fuel use as a controlling factor on the use of overtake engine modes.

People seem to forget that dull races have always happened, and that not every event was 70 laps of balls to the floor, wheel to wheel racing.

I think one of the huge issues is the pressure to manage the tires - this leads to lap after lap of 'strategy' driving where drivers simply cannot push without compromising their race. Tires that last a whole race would solve at least this.

This. Standard 1 side of the coin rant. For example, if you remove DRS, what are you going to implement to replace it? DRS, as much as people love to hate on it, it solves a problem. Without DRS there is no overtaking in F1.

I don't have a huge problem with allowing variable aero. But the artifice around DRS is just so ridiculous - some arbitrary white line and being <1sec means your rear wing can open. It is trying to provide a cure without looking at the cause.

Dirty air is the problem here. Allow them to use downforce that is less dependant on clean air. Skirts and smaller wings. Or even allow the driver to alter aero as they drive. If you are following you get innate drag reduction cos of the tow. Trade that for some extra downforce to allow closer following.

 

[MooMoo444]

Was a good race, lots of action. Will be difficult for Abu Dhabi to top this one.

 

[robbiemc]

Gosh I think I glazed over during that.
Highlight was Sky's post-race interview with JB where he said:

I've been asked a lot today if I prefer grid girls or grid boys - I prefer girls but the grid boy in front of my car was well stacked.

 

[Skeeter]

I think one of the huge issues is the pressure to manage the tires - this leads to lap after lap of 'strategy' driving where drivers simply cannot push without compromising their race. Tires that last a whole race would solve at least this.

Are you saying F1 should be sprint races with no pit stops?

Dirty air is the problem here. Allow them to use downforce that is less dependant on clean air. Skirts and smaller wings.

Skirts are a very basic and outdated method of using ground effect. But ground effect is the answer. GP2 and GP3 use it, WEC use it, IndyCar use it, hell, everything other than F1 seems to attempt to use it.

Or even allow the driver to alter aero as they drive. If you are following you get innate drag reduction cos of the tow. Trade that for some extra downforce to allow closer following.

We had this ins 2009 with the adjustable front wing, and it made no difference. Adding wing to increase downforce then increased drag which made you slower in a straight line, which then offset any gain you got from being able to floow a bit better in the corners.

Plus, it wasn't used as a tool for overtaking, it was just used to reduce wing angle on the straights, by everyone, at the same point, every lap.

 

[MooMoo444]

I think one of the huge issues is the pressure to manage the tires - this leads to lap after lap of 'strategy' driving where drivers simply cannot push without compromising their race. Tires that last a whole race would solve at least this.

Not as easy as you think, there will always be that motivation to save performance for when you need it, even with tires designed to last the race. Picture a scenario where leader goes all out, opens a 20 second gap, only for Maldonado to make out with a barrier in a bad place. Safety car comes out and the leader now has scraggy boots on and the second place guy can just breeze by, so why risk it when you could just manage the tires and maintain a 3s gap?

The race engineers work out the fastest strategy using all options available and then they go with the best. That means you will more often than not have all the competing drivers using the same battle plan.