BREAKING: Paris landmark, Notre Dame Cathedral, is on fire!

Tombstone said:
No idea.. I mean I know its a firm that's got history of working on some historical buildings, but that's in the companys past, when it was run by the former company heads. I know its run by a family but even so..if I was renovating something of such importance theres no way I would put it in the hands of someone just over 30 years of age. I understand that is pretty ageist of me, but some things imo, need an older head overseeing it.

Not putting the blame squarely at the firm involved, it may have still happened with anyone else, I'm just surprised that a national (global even?) monument would be put in the hands of someone so young.
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When I worked for an insurance company which specialised in church/cathedral insurance about 10 years ago, there weren't any large building firms capable of repairing and restoring cathedrals. They were mostly one-man bands or very small groups of highly specialised masons/roofers etc (usually from France too). Might be slightly different now, don't know.

Don't forget that when the cathedral was being built, 30 would have been old :p . The original master builders probably weren't much older (although to be fair they probably started work at 10...)

Very glad the damage appears to have been contained though. If the stone framework is stable, hopefully they can do a good job of repairing it, especially as much as the damage is above the vault and shouldn't be visible from the inside.
 
Tombstone said:
Why the hell would you give a £5 million contract to restore something of such importance, to a small company run by a 32 year old with limited experience of working on such a monument? Surely you would want a more major firm involved, run by someone with far more experience. Its not like we're talking about fixing up grandmas shed.
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Are there many companies with experience in that specific field?

A lot of the companies that do renovation work on ancient buildings are relatively small simply because the market for their work tends to be quite limited, but they'll usually be working with other firms that are also small but specialised.
There are virtually no big construction companies that have the experience or skills to do the work, and very few that can even manage the project as it's so far from the ordinary.

IIRC in the UK English Heritage is often the group in "charge" of a lot of similar works but most of the people doing the actual work may belong to family businesses that only have a handful of staff and are extremely skilled in their specific area.
From memory one of the issues in the UK when it comes to restoration work on things like churches and palaces is that there is a very small pool of people with the ability as it's often very hard and very skilled work that doesn't pay well for years/decades as you learn how to do it usually from someone who has done it all their life, using tools and materials that may have changed very little in a thousand years.

Also who is meant to have got the contract and are you sure the five million is the only contract? It doesn't sound much for a major historical restoration (one of my local churches raised over £1.5 million about 20 years ago to restore it's steeple after a fire to give you an idea of the costs).
 
wolfie138 said:
that sounds odd. i'd have thought a fire alarm in a building like that would have triggered some massive investigation immediately, possibly had the alarm directly linked to a fire station. I thought the fire was a kinda big instantaneous(ish) thing, seems odd that an alarm went off them people were wandering about seeing/smelling nowt for 20 mins then the building's ablaze.
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Well he said by the time he got back home to his flat and looked out of the window he could see the smoke rising above the cathedral. Thats what fire alarms are meant to do - give an early warning. Plus these may well have been temporary fire alarms set up where they were carrying out restoration work and out of sight inside the cathedral which alos would explain why he said he had never heard that alarm sound before as you would imagine they must do fire alarm drills and practises at the site?
 
Heinz57 said:
When I worked for an insurance company which specialised in church/cathedral insurance about 10 years ago, there weren't any large building firms capable of repairing and restoring cathedrals. They were mostly one-man bands or very small groups of highly specialised masons/roofers etc (usually from France too). Might be slightly different now, don't know.

Don't forget that when the cathedral was being built, 30 would have been old :p . The original master builders probably weren't much older (although to be fair they probably started work at 10...)
e.
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You posted whilst I was answering the door:P

Aye I remember watching some programs on restoration on TV and it always seemed the crafts people were either self employed, or parts of traditional companies who basically went where the work was (unlike the average big contractor who'll sub contract to the local brickies and chippies you find in every large town).
 
Werewolf said:
You posted whilst I was answering the door:p

Aye I remember watching some programs on restoration on TV and it always seemed the crafts people were either self employed, or parts of traditional companies who basically went where the work was (unlike the average big contractor who'll sub contract to the local brickies and chippies you find in every large town).
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The guys we have who deal with our historical buildings are always smaller groups or single people who essentially started as a hobby!
 
Heinz57 said:
When I worked for an insurance company which specialised in church/cathedral insurance about 10 years ago, there weren't any large building firms capable of repairing and restoring cathedrals. They were mostly one-man bands or very small groups of highly specialised masons/roofers etc (usually from France too). Might be slightly different now, don't know.
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I heard they all belong to a special club and have secret meetings where they wear aprons and roll up one trouser leg and have secret handshakes...
 
dowie said:
I heard they all belong to a special club and have secret meetings where they wear aprons and roll up one trouser leg and have secret handshakes...
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Well it is possible, although I don't remember meeting any in person ;) . Regardless, the quality of work they are capable of producing is incredible!
 
Dis86 said:
The guys we have who deal with our historical buildings are always smaller groups or single people who essentially started as a hobby!
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That really doesn't surprise me, as so much of the work is a labour of love given how long/hard it is to learn the skills and how little money is often involved compared to other jobs.

One of my friends is learning blacksmithing as a hobby, which is quite expensive.
 
Heinz57 said:
Don't forget that when the cathedral was being built, 30 would have been old :p . The original master builders probably weren't much older (although to be fair they probably started work at 10...)
.
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Not really true.

There is frequently major confusion over the difference between Mean life expectancy at birth and the typical life expectancy for adults in pre-modern societies

The very low "Mean life expectancy" figures often quoted are massively skewed by infant and juvenile mortality. (Perhaps over 50% of all deaths before modern hygiene and medicine became available)

In practice however, anybody who managed to achieve adulthood would have had a reasonably good chance of reaching their "Three score years and ten" unless they died as a consequence of battle or serious physical injury, well for Men anyway.

(A figure that has bee recognized as being a reasonable expectation for Human life expectancy for as long as written history has existed)

However, the situation was rather different for Women. Onehas to remember that Men and Women are not equal and adult Women were far more vulnerable to early death as a result of complications of pregnancy and childbirth.

One of the reasons why Elizabeth 1 maintained her position as "The Virgin Queen" was almost certainly down to the somewhat pragmatic one that did so because she would have realized that, quite literally, her long life depended on it.
 
Anybody else wondering why the Catholic Church / Vatican state hasn’t yet said they’ll see if they can find a few quid to put towards the restoration?

Not exactly an organisation that’s strapped for cash tbh......
 
dowie said:
I guess, though could just as well be careless workmen as someone suggested earlier. I guess particularly if using roofing equipment etc..

LOL @ Esmeralda though :D



That's sad, I get that is is a really significant building that everyone would like to see saved as much as possible but I also don't think firefighters ought to feel the need to take many risks here (if any) so long as there are no people inside, I mean I'd rather they were just stood well back and potentially letting more damage occur rather than putting any lives at risk, as significant as it is it is still just a building.
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Isnt that what they are payed for though?
 
Maccapacca said:
I'm thinking maybe twenty years to see it back open fully. Certainly isn't a couple of year job.
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Macron reckons within 5 years..... :rolleyes: a bit like Trump last night, I think he’s thinking of his political base rather than reality...

Macron's bold pledge

The French president made this bold promise: "We will rebuild Notre Dame even more beautifully and I want it to be completed in five years, we can do it.

"It is up to us to change this disaster into an opportunity to come together, having deeply reflected on what we have been and what we have to be and become better than we are. It is up to us to find the thread of our national project."
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Just reporting on Sky News.
 
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