Brexit thread - what happens next

do_ron_ron · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:02

Skunkworks said:
The ever more authoritarian left love to choose who can and can’t vote.

Coming at a time of ever growing authoritarian right wing Govt, that is rich.

Skunkworks · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:02

I love this thread. It’s like some sort of bizarre support group where Remainers comfort and reassure each other that everything is going to be terrible!

Mr Jack · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:02

Tefal said:
By that logic china might be tempted to give the UK an amazing (if short term) deal to encourage other countries to leave and thus open up more coubtries to trade as the eu wont negotiate with it.

I doubt very much that China would conclude that wrecking the economies of a major partner is a reasonable price for maybe getting some trade deals.

Crpwned · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:12

Skunkworks said:
I love this thread. It’s like some sort of bizarre support group where Remainers comfort and reassure each other that everything is going to be terrible!

I love this thread. It’s like some sort of bizarre support group where Leavers comfort and reassure each other that everything is going to be amazing!

Maybe we'll fine some nice middle ground where it all just be 'ok' because we're British and that's what we were brought up to do. The old 'could be worse I guess' mentality that shines through in us all

do_ron_ron · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:12

Sega Mega Dave said:
The EU is a cancer that needs removing. It's a dictatorship where those in charge were never voted in.

Straight from the Fail or the Depress. The EU is more democratic than the UK. The EU bodies are directly elected or elected by Govts who the people of that country elected. Meanwhile the House of Lords...

If people think countries are going to be stubborn towards us when creating trade deals then they really have fell for the fear mongering. Business is business.

Politics is politics. Especially when there are elections coming up in some of the EU countries. France, in particular, appears to have an anti-UK sentiment.

Remainers should be ashamed. They make this country weak.

Yes it was their actions that caused a 10% drop in the Pound. Wait till that works it's way through in the coming months.

Also people asking for a second referendum make me laugh. What do we do keep voting until you get the outcome you want. We voted, majority had the sense to vote correctly and in the long term if we don't half arise it we will benefit. The EU will collapse within the next couple of decades and it will be glorious.

It has become crystal clear that nobody thought this would happen including Boris and now people are in damage limitation mode.

Greebo · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:18

deuse said:
I didn't hear you moan when China invested £bns in the UK last year and are helping to build a nuclear power station ?
Project fear is still going

At the cost of us vetoing tariffs on imported cheap steel from China..........

Out government obviously thought letting the UK steel industry die was less important than the £4 billion investment from the Chinese.

Which is my overall problem with our government doing a trade deal with China. You just know that China will come out top and any benefit to the UK will just be London orientated again.

deuse · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:20

Burnsy2023 said:
When are you going to realise that Project Fear as actually just Project Reality?

Well project fear worked on you.

Opening up the UK market to Chinese foreign imports subsidised by the Chinese government is one of the reasons why British Steel has so many issues. Do we really want that in other sectors too?

No. That was Yellow back Cameron that failed to stop the steel imports. You did read about it..didn't you?

VincentHanna · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:34

deuse said:
Well project fear worked on you.

No. That was Yellow back Cameron that failed to stop the steel imports. You did read about it..didn't you?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...blocking-eu-attempts-regulate-chinese-dumping

Indeed - Why did people vote to leave again?

do_ron_ron · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:35

deuse said:
No. That was Yellow back Cameron that failed to stop the steel imports. You did read about it..didn't you?

No, he is right, it was the UK Govt that vetoed an EU anti-dumping measure.

Burnsy2023 · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:42

deuse said:
No. That was Yellow back Cameron that failed to stop the steel imports. You did read about it..didn't you?

The steel imports are still so cheap because of Chinese state subsidies. Whether or not the UK block the EU wanting to limit imports, is here nor there, the root cause is still China- which if we have a free trade deal (and limiting those imports is exactly the opposite of free trade), we'll get more issues.

Skunkworks · 25 Jul 2016 at 11:45

VincentHanna said:
Why did people vote to leave again?

I have a soul.

{T5K}TT · 25 Jul 2016 at 12:23

jas72 said:
I love this.

You cannot move forward when you don't know the destination.

The government reminds me of the walking dead series.

Nice fortified walls zombie free and some crops.

Yet the people are not happy so they have a vote.

4 decide to leave and 3 decide to stay and 3 don't know.

Despite this the leader of the 4 says "we don't know where we are going but the majority voted to leave" but it's done now just keep walking.

People in their right minds cannot accept leaving without discussing what happens, including those that didn't know.

I think this sums up the position.

This is a strange post. You want a precise definition of Brexit, but at the same time might be presupposing that remaining in the EU will supply some kind of political certainty in regard to how the future will look. Can you honestly say *exactly* where the EU is heading, and what it will look like 10-20 years from now? I don't think you can. 20 or 30 years ago, few would have imagined how the EU would develop, and, for example, what a disaster the Euro single currency would turn out to be.

What seems to me is that post-Brexit, some sore losers have taken to demanding a precise and exact map of the future, that none of them could possibly supply in the case of how the EU might develop.

It's really time to move on, and accept the will of the people. The best those who wished the UK to remain in the EU can do is work to influence the deal, so that the best possible one is struck for all sides. Then we all win.

Stretch · 25 Jul 2016 at 12:32

deuse said:
Well project fear worked on you.

No. That was Yellow back Cameron that failed to stop the steel imports. You did read about it..didn't you?

He failed to stop the steel imports so as to not upset the Chinese. Since the UK is a member of the EU, it has control over EU Tariff levels. This is quite a useful tool when negotiate concessions on the world stage.

The UK refused to agree to raise EU tariffs on steel to a level required to offset Chinese dumping. Much to the annoyance of some other member states.

bayo000 · 25 Jul 2016 at 12:50

{T5K}TT said:
This is a strange post. You want a precise definition of Brexit, but at the same time might be presupposing that remaining in the EU will supply some kind of political certainty in regard to how the future will look. Can you honestly say *exactly* where the EU is heading, and what it will look like 10-20 years from now? I don't think you can. 20 or 30 years ago, few would have imagined how the EU would develop, and, for example, what a disaster the Euro single currency would turn out to be.

You're questioning that people can't say where EU will be in 10-30 years but at the moment we don't even know where UK is gonna be in next few months. Does that not strike you as strange? Most of the Leave main political figures run as soon as the result was announce and they realised what a **** up they made with no plan going forward in next couple of years.

Darujhistan · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:06

Skunkworks said:
I love this thread. It’s like some sort of bizarre support group where Remainers comfort and reassure each other that everything is going to be terrible!

It is, they'll be devastated when everything is fine after the dust settles.

Darujhistan · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:08

VincentHanna said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...blocking-eu-attempts-regulate-chinese-dumping

Indeed - Why did people vote to leave again?

Because there are far more important issues to me that what's in my wallet next week, or next month or next year.

Mulder · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:17

bayo000 said:
You're questioning that people can't say where EU will be in 10-30 years but at the moment we don't even know where UK is gonna be in next few months. Does that not strike you as strange? Most of the Leave main political figures run as soon as the result was announce and they realised what a **** up they made with no plan going forward in next couple of years.

You want political certainty where none exists. What's going to happen in the US in the next few months? The Middle East? Turkey? Who knows, and all of these questions for me are much bigger than Brexit.

The EU has a very uncertain future, and when we signed up we had no idea it would ever take the direction it has. To criticise the Brexit camp for not having a clear idea of the future is applying double standards, and is generally only proclaimed by some of the more vocal remainers on here. You can't predict the outcome of negotiations when they haven't happened yet. And even if we wanted to, it would be unwise to announce them publicly, as not to hinder said negotiations.

Only two things are certain in life, death and taxes.

Darujhistan · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:25

The EU has a very uncertain future, and when we signed up we had no idea it would ever take the direction it has

Tony Benn and Enoch Powell did.

StriderX · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:28

Burnsy2023 said:
The steel imports are still so cheap because of Chinese state subsidies. Whether or not the UK block the EU wanting to limit imports, is here nor there, the root cause is still China- which if we have a free trade deal (and limiting those imports is exactly the opposite of free trade), we'll get more issues.

What more issues? We don't really have a steel industry anyway, id be amazed if a venture capitalist didn't buy and demolish the rest of it.

Cosying up to China is at least mildly preventative of the bigger problems that could arise in the next few months with the Dollar-Yuan saga.

Cern · 25 Jul 2016 at 13:28

{T5K}TT said:
This is a strange post. You want a precise definition of Brexit, but at the same time might be presupposing that remaining in the EU will supply some kind of political certainty in regard to how the future will look. Can you honestly say *exactly* where the EU is heading, and what it will look like 10-20 years from now? I don't think you can. 20 or 30 years ago, few would have imagined how the EU would develop, and, for example, what a disaster the Euro single currency would turn out to be.

What seems to me is that post-Brexit, some sore losers have taken to demanding a precise and exact map of the future, that none of them could possibly supply in the case of how the EU might develop.

It's really time to move on, and accept the will of the people. The best those who wished the UK to remain in the EU can do is work to influence the deal, so that the best possible one is struck for all sides. Then we all win.

"Sore losers"? You think it's that simplistic? This is a serious situation and people on all sides are worried about the future and quite rightly so. It is not unreasonable to ask for a coherent plan.

The most common response of a Leaver is "we voted for change now YOU deliver it". But the majority of people you are asking to deliver it (MPs, civil servants, business leaders etc) don't believe in it. So how is that going to work?

Leavers need to stop saying "deal with it" and "move on" and show some leadership. If you vote for a huge gamble, then you need to take responsibility for ensuring that gamble pays off and doesn't lead everyone to a very bad place.

At the moment Leavers are like back seat drivers who have moaned for so long they've finally managed to force the car down a different road. But when asked "where are we going" their response is just "shut up and drive" rather than be willing to take on the responsibility of driving.

And if moving forwards means Leavers have to win over sceptical, worried and antagonistic Remainers then "deal with it" because it comes with the territory of what you voted for.