British Airways - Massive IT Disruption Worldwide

Caporegime
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18 Oct 2002
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26,103
It smells like brain drain to me. Although the power shouldn't have failed since any faulty equipment would have been picked up in the regular tests.
 
Soldato
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Midlands
It smells like brain drain to me. Although the power shouldn't have failed since any faulty equipment would have been picked up in the regular tests.

There definitely has been a brain drain,

I've done various bits of work down there numerous times, as they bought a lot of their hardware from us (in a previous role a coupe of years ago) and I've known the guys down there for a while. At the time a whole load of stuff was being moved to India (TATA) as the stuff we were selling them was being handed over to a new team rather than the guys I knew (who were pretty good tbh) I think they were mostly made redundant, or hung around as contractors for the duration of the migrations.

It's one thing to outsource if you've got a big Greenfield deployment, but a huge complex pile of legacy/new/custom *stuff* like BA is a disaster waiting to happen, as far as outsourcing goes.. They have some of the oldest systems I've ever seen in my life, they still have some systems that use Token Ring and DEC (or they did last time I spoke to them last year)

It's actually all a bit sad really, they had good staff, a good setup and a decent reputation - and now they've just gone and blown it tbh, they should have known as TATA are an utter disaster,

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/24/ba_job_offshoring_gmb_union_hand_delivered_letters/
 
Soldato
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On the pale blue dot
In defence of the Indian workforce I currently work with off shore delivery teams as part of the firm I work for and with those of my competitors. They're a fantastic resource for two reasons: they're much cheaper than UK resources and they often have specialist skills that we don't have (either outright, or our guys are busy). They are a fantastic team, the only downside (which is why you don't 100% offshore) being cultural and geographic differences, for example not understanding the subtleties of British sarcasm. This is the kind of offshoring that works, where the client doesn't want to pay thousands a day for a UK resource, because their own clients don't want to pay through the nose for their product.

The downside to this is when you outsource to a firm that basically says 'I'll do anything you want for $100 a day', which is where we end up with messes like this. Then again, if I said to you I was adding £50 to a shorthaul ticket because they're using UK IT resources, you'd go and buy an Easyjet ticket.
 
Caporegime
Joined
20 Jan 2005
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Co Durham
In defence of the Indian workforce I currently work with off shore delivery teams as part of the firm I work for and with those of my competitors. They're a fantastic resource for two reasons: they're much cheaper than UK resources and they often have specialist skills that we don't have (either outright, or our guys are busy). They are a fantastic team, the only downside (which is why you don't 100% offshore) being cultural and geographic differences, for example not understanding the subtleties of British sarcasm. This is the kind of offshoring that works, where the client doesn't want to pay thousands a day for a UK resource, because their own clients don't want to pay through the nose for their product.

The downside to this is when you outsource to a firm that basically says 'I'll do anything you want for $100 a day', which is where we end up with messes like this. Then again, if I said to you I was adding £50 to a shorthaul ticket because they're using UK IT resources, you'd go and buy an Easyjet ticket.

So what you are saying is that its worth losing £100m every decade or so on disasters like this plus its sure to make some people look at not booking with BA?
 
Caporegime
Joined
22 Jun 2004
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26,684
Location
Deep England
In defence of the Indian workforce I currently work with off shore delivery teams as part of the firm I work for and with those of my competitors. They're a fantastic resource for two reasons: they're much cheaper than UK resources and they often have specialist skills that we don't have (either outright, or our guys are busy). They are a fantastic team, the only downside (which is why you don't 100% offshore) being cultural and geographic differences, for example not understanding the subtleties of British sarcasm. This is the kind of offshoring that works, where the client doesn't want to pay thousands a day for a UK resource, because their own clients don't want to pay through the nose for their product.

The downside to this is when you outsource to a firm that basically says 'I'll do anything you want for $100 a day', which is where we end up with messes like this. Then again, if I said to you I was adding £50 to a shorthaul ticket because they're using UK IT resources, you'd go and buy an Easyjet ticket.
You forgot to mention "they will do the work British people are too lazy to do". Apart from that your list of the usual excuses for replacing British workers with cheaper workers from abroad was spot on.

I've worked with lots of Indian IT workers (mainly ones that who come over here on intra-company transfers); some are good, some are bad, most are mediocre - same as the British IT workers I've worked with. Anyone who claims that nationality X are better at something than nationality Y frankly has a disgusting attitude.
 
Associate
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16 Sep 2009
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Loogabarooga
Sky-news are reporting the outage is maybe down to human error when an electrical engineer disconnected the UPS to the data centre and then just flicked the switch back on again.

If so then I guess that's very poor change management by their outsourced company.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2005
Posts
16,553
Sky-news are reporting the outage is maybe down to human error when an electrical engineer disconnected the UPS to the data centre and then just flicked the switch back on again.

If so then I guess that's very poor change management by their outsourced company.

maybe so, but flicking a single switch should not take an airline down for a week lol
 
Man of Honour
Joined
28 Nov 2007
Posts
12,736
I had an email saying my exec club gold will be extended for an additional 2 years without the need for tier points as an apology. Quite a nice bonus to be fair. This year is not 100% i would make gold.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2005
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16,553
I had an email saying my exec club gold will be extended for an additional 2 years without the need for tier points as an apology. Quite a nice bonus to be fair. This year is not 100% i would make gold.

How do the points work? I've taken five long haul flights this year, but only the first trip added on points.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
28 Nov 2007
Posts
12,736
How do the points work? I've taken five long haul flights this year, but only the first trip added on points.

You should get tier points for every flight you take with BA or a one world airline. Tier points drive what tier level you have. You also collect avios for every non-reward flight, those can be spent on flights etc.

Sounds like you have not applied your exec number to all flights may be? You can do it retrospectively (with a time limit of some sort)
 
Associate
Joined
11 May 2009
Posts
1,037
Poor sod who caused this is going to get so much stick.

I remember leading a raid party in EQ2 where a simple mis-click of mine got the whole team locked out of a new instance where we were finally making good progress in.

My God the shame... Lol
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Sep 2005
Posts
16,553
You should get tier points for every flight you take with BA or a one world airline. Tier points drive what tier level you have. You also collect avios for every non-reward flight, those can be spent on flights etc.

Sounds like you have not applied your exec number to all flights may be? You can do it retrospectively (with a time limit of some sort)

Mmmm, I did everything through the BA app
 
Man of Honour
Joined
19 Oct 2002
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29,528
Location
Surrey
The cause wasn't that one switch. That was the trigger. But the cause was insufficiently robust DR processes or infrastructure. Contributing factors would include poor change management procedures. An event like this could be triggered for different reasons and that's what a fully tested DR is for. Something went badly wrong with their DR either in their processes (failover didn't work, wasn't tested, etc) or there was no allowance in the plan for some kind of data corruption.

You forgot to mention "they will do the work British people are too lazy to do". Apart from that your list of the usual excuses for replacing British workers with cheaper workers from abroad was spot on.

I've worked with lots of Indian IT workers (mainly ones that who come over here on intra-company transfers); some are good, some are bad, most are mediocre - same as the British IT workers I've worked with. Anyone who claims that nationality X are better at something than nationality Y frankly has a disgusting attitude.

You're absolutely right. There is a wide range of skills and experience offshore, just the same as the UK. You get good and bad in both countries. However aside from the culture differences already mentioned there are two significant issues that I've seen repeatedly.

1) Due to the massive expansion of the IT industry in India, many people who simply aren't interested in technology are attracted to the jobs. This does happen in the UK of course. But I feel that this happens a lot more offshore. It's a well paid job which pulls in many people who have no interest in it. I can tell quite quickly who will be a great offshore worker because they usually show an actual interest in the work and technology in general. Those people can be fantastic.

2) In the UK if someone suggested taking a business critical system such as airlines or banking and gave it to a team of people just of of uni to support then we'd rightly get laughed at for risking such systems with inexperienced people. But we do seem quite happy to hand responsibility to the cheapest offshore provide we can find. Naturally to get the business that provider will give a cheap quote. The only way they can achieve a cheap price is to use cheap people, even by offshore standards. So they employ a lot of inexperienced people while management in this country can wipe their hands of any responsibility. I've seen several offshore tenders and they usually go to the cheapest one, not the company that can best demonstrate a high quality workforce.

So it's not the country itself that results in poor quality, but a willingness in this country to hand over critical systems to the cheapest person available.
 
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