British man to be exectuted by Chinese

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Your blood could kill millions, should we kill you too?

All I stated was that no matter who or in what mental state the culprit is, the effects of the crime could have been devastating. I also stated, the punishment should have been reconsidered, as I too believe it was extreme, but as someone else said, you have to respect another country's laws, especially if you intend on smuggling drugs into it.

And in response to your bizarre question - If 1. my blood is proven to be ABLE to kill millions, and 2. my blood WOULD BE INTENTIONALLY DISTRIBUTED to cause the deaths of millions, then yeah, kill me.
 
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The chinese could quite easily have assessed his mental condition but refused to do so.

The family claim he had bi-polar disorder and after reading up on it seems the condition doesn't hold weight as defence in most if not all countries as sufferers are still aware of what they are doing even if commiting a crime and like any anyone else they can refrain from doing so, it probably wouldn't have made much difference anyways whether he was found to suffer it or not.
 
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Similarly Shaikh, born in Pakistan, spent much of his adult life in the U.S. and Poland before going on his criminal odyssey to China. Neither of these men could demonstrate any real commitment or connection to Britain.


So he's not even British.
 
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He had British citizenship but other than that, he evidently was not British in any meaningful sense. So why our government went out on a limb to support this man is beyond belief. But then so much of what our government does defies belief and logic.
 
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I stopped reading after spending the whole morning getting to page 17. Sorry if these items have been already sorted out after that point.

I believe there was a request for links backing up the deterrent side of capital punishment.

Pro capital punishment but still interesting reading here.

During the temporary suspension on capital punishment from 1972-1976, researchers gathered murder statistics across the country. In 1960, there were 56 executions in the USA and 9,140 murders. By 1964, when there were only 15 executions, the number of murders had risen to 9,250. In 1969, there were no executions and 14,590 murders, and 1975, after six more years without executions, 20,510 murders occurred rising to 23,040 in 1980 after only two executions since 1976. In summary, between 1965 and 1980, the number of annual murders in the United States skyrocketed from 9,960 to 23,040, a 131 percent increase. The murder rate -- homicides per 100,000 persons -- doubled from 5.1 to 10.2. So the number of murders grew as the number of executions shrank. Researcher Karl Spence of Texas A&M University said:

"While some [death penalty] abolitionists try to face down the results of their disastrous experiment and still argue to the contrary, the...[data] concludes that a substantial deterrent effect has been observed...In six months, more Americans are murdered than have killed by execution in this entire century...Until we begin to fight crime in earnest [by using the death penalty], every person who dies at a criminal's hands is a victim of our inaction."
Multiple published papers on the subject here.

If he was mentally ill and not responsible for his actions then who was responsible for him. Comments have been made that not knowing what he was doing exempts him from the punishment just like children are treated differently in the eyes of the law, so should the mentally ill. This is not unreasonable but for the fact that children have an accountable adult to look after them. Who was looking after this mentally ill person who by the families own admission suffered from a condition which should exempt him from responsibility for his actions. At what level can a person with Bi-Polar be held responsible for their actions. If they murder a child, should they be responsible, if they raped your wife / girlfriend should they be responsible. At what point do people that believe mental illness negates responsibility believe a mentally ill person should be finally held responsible.

He flew from Tajikistan to Urumqi and was able to board the flight with 4KG of heroin in his baggage ?. What was he doing in Tajikistan in the first place unescorted when he is known to suffer from bi-polar.

It is interesting to see quotes of the percentage of deaths by capital punishment in China stated here compared to the rest of the world as I understood there was not reliable record kept just estimations by various groups.

I would also hope that the people stating they would kill anyone threatening violence against their family in the thread about the guy who beat a burglar to mental retardation are not decrying the death penalty here.

As so many people here believe the death penalty is not acceptable, what would people suggest is a reasonable punishment for the people involved in the tainted China milk powder scandal last year. From reports it seems at least 6 babies died and 158, just think about that number for a minute, 158 babies suffered acute kidney failure. Their kidneys were destroyed. Thousands of babies were hospitalised. If you are a parent, what would you say the responsible parties punishment should be for killing your baby. Being a parent I know what my response would be.

On Chinas stance on not letting a foreign country dictate how their laws are interpreted, the Uk would do the same and have openly stated that they would never give in to blackmail or intimidation. Why should we not expect the same from other countries.

The same outrage concerning corporal punishment happened a few years ago with a case of an American kid (Michael P Fay) allegedly vandalising property here in Singapore. It costs around twice the price for the same car here as it does in the UK. The punishment was caning which was considered barbaric by lots of people in the west and the family though being that they were American that they were exempt from the law. Clinton made an appeal and the boys sentence was reduced to four strokes. The most poignant quote from the linked article came from the Singapore Governments response to US threats..
The Singaporean government pointed out that Singaporeans who break the law faced the same punishments as Fay, and suggested that the United States should pay more attention to its domestic problems, such as American law and order, rather than telling other countries what to do.


Fay was alleged to have attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, used as an excuse for clemency at the time and is also alleged to have committed further criminal acts on his return to the US.

IMO Mr Shaikh was severely let down by his family and the social services. He has now paid the ultimate price for these failings. Tedmaul, sorry to hear one of your friends is affected by the same condition but TBH if one of my children was injured or killed either directly or indirectly by your friends actions when they were unsupervised then the first thing I would be asking is why weren’t they supervised. ‘It only happens sometimes, most of the time he is ok’ is an excuse given by people not willing to provide the required care for someone unlucky enough to be afflicted with this illness. It only takes one time to kill someone, hitting them whilst driving a car for example whilst speeding in their delusion. If someone is going around in public who is unaccountable fro their actions then someone else needs to be responsible and therefore accountable for them. This is generally by default their parents.

Cheers
RB
 

Sho

Sho

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I dont care if he was English, pakistani, bangladeshi, Jap or any other ethinic minority.

The guy tried smuggling drugs into a country knowing that, if cought Death penelty is only around the corner. And China aint the only country who do Death penalty.

It's there Law. Just because you think your a British citizenship you cant just walk into China with so much crap of drugs. Not worth it.

Like the two idiots got done in dubhai for having sex in the beech, they got screwed didnt they?
Why? Because they thought they can get away with it in a diffrent country. Every country have their own law. Dont like it? Dont go there. Enough said.

No sympothy.
 
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Smuggle Drugs into China and if caught you will DIE!

Right or wrong it's a great deterent!

To say that surely you'd have to be able to show that people are deterred from doing so by the death penalty? As is often noted correlation does not equal causation (even if we accept that China really does have such a low proportion of drug crime).

I stopped reading after spending the whole morning getting to page 17. Sorry if these items have been already sorted out after that point.

I believe there was a request for links backing up the deterrent side of capital punishment.

Pro capital punishment but still interesting reading here.

Cheers
RB

Quick search on the deterrent effect of the death penalty brings up Death Penalty Information Centre which is anti the death penalty and they conclude that there is no definitive proof of the deterrent effect as well as noting that there are several serious errors in the data collection methods employed by many of the death penalty advocates. I'm not saying that they are absolutely correct and the pro-death penalty folks are automatically wrong but it's fairly easy to manipulate statistics to support a pre-existing viewpoint.

Also Mr Lowe as a death penalty advocate sets up some rather nice strawmen which he then proceeds to knock down in support of his view - if you start from a false premise then it becomes much easier to support a particular viewpoint e.g. stating that because criminals will comply with an armed police officer (most of the time) the effect of fear is one that is always of use - it confuses the issue that there may be a difference between the immediate situational fear (policeman with a gun) and that of a potentially non-existent possibility where lethal force could be applied (the death penalty). If a failure to appreciate the difference in the situations is the predicate that you start from then it is not difficult to see how the view can be misapplied.
 
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I wonder if people would feel any differently if they could detach themselves from their emotional knee-jerk reaction to drug running.

No!

Also nobody has said anything about the USA

US court rules that insane prisoners can be executed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1169256/

also

Executed British drug trafficker Akmal Shaikh was investigated by British and Polish spy chiefs after a chilling text message sent following London's 7/7 bombings, it emerged today (Tues). Shaikh - at the time living in Poland - triggered the investigation in 2005 when electronic eavesdroppers intercepted a text from a phone registered to him saying: "Now everybody will understand who Muslims are and what jihad is." The message was sent from Shaikh's phone to two people in London, reports Polish TV news service TVN24. And Polish prosecutors today (Tuesday) confirmed the investigation into Shaikh, 53, who was executed by Chinese authorities this morning after he was caught smuggling four kilograms of heroin into the country. Poland's equivalent of MI5 investigated Shaikh, who lived in Lublin where he was married with two Polish children. But District Prosecutor spokeswoman Beata Jankowska today (Tuesday) said they finally dropped the five month long investigation by the Internal Security Agency. "In December 2005, proceedings were discontinued in the absence of sufficient evidence," she said. But less than a year later, Shaikh was in trouble with the law again, it emerged today (Tuesday) when he was investigated for assaulting his Polish wife. She complained to police of him using threatening behaviour to both her and their two children but withdrew her statement in 2006 before the case could come to court, it was reported. Polish authorities suspected she had been intimidated but Shaikh left for China soon after the case was shelved. This morning (Tuesday) - despite protests from the British Government - Shaikh was executed in China for drug smuggling.


www.austriantimes.at/n...or_suspect
 
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Soldato
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I think that we operate a policy in this country which says ignorance is no excuse [for breaking the law]. Whist i agree with the death penalty on principle I'm against it in 'the real world' having said that it is not my country and were someone to be caught running drugs in to this country i'd expect them to be prosecuted under our laws.

He broke Chinese law, he suffers the consequences.
 

B&W

B&W

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no point in killin him cus it wnt stop ppl frm smuglin drugs into china so wot has it achieved? 2 take sumones life should only b dun for murder n rape. b4 spellin police cum im typin this on a fone.
 
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no point in killin him cus it wnt stop ppl frm smuglin drugs into china so wot has it achieved?

It hasn't achieved anything, but its THEIR law....

It's not like this was aimed at a "british" person it could have been anyone from anywhere in the world. But the outcome would have been the same.

Person with lots of drugs goes to China, China find out, person is tried by Chinese law, that law is exection.

Why should he be an exception to their law in their country just because he is British ?
 
Soldato
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no point in killin him cus it wnt stop ppl frm smuglin drugs into china so wot has it achieved? 2 take sumones life should only b dun for murder n rape. b4 spellin police cum im typin this on a fone.

By the same token why will killing murderers and rapists prevent murders and rapes occurring?

it prevents re-offending, it acts as a deterrent. Drugs are extremely destructive and the quantity he was carrying could have done a lot of damage.
 
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Similarly Shaikh, born in Pakistan, spent much of his adult life in the U.S. and Poland before going on his criminal odyssey to China. Neither of these men could demonstrate any real commitment or connection to Britain.


So he's not even British.

He had British citizenship but other than that, he evidently was not British in any meaningful sense. So why our government went out on a limb to support this man is beyond belief. But then so much of what our government does defies belief and logic.

Hear, hear.
 
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