Soldato
denial about what ?
even iran threatens to slap us in the face
even iran threatens to slap us in the face
British man to be exectuted by Chinese
- Thread starter magick
- Start date
Associate
erm i think the US still beats china
ok 106,000 die every year in the uk from smoking.
That's proven deaths not
"oh well if every heroin user that received the drug decided to take a lethal dose rather than lots of safe doses."
Fantasy land.
So should we start executing lorry drivers, cargo ship captains?
These people kill far more than the heroin smugglers could.
You can;t argue with collateral when we gladly welcome it in antoher form.
America is in debt (money) to China. Powerful countries dont ask a lesser powerful country to help them bail out of trouble. capech?
yes they do.
Or do you think china's reliance on Africa for food is because the Africans are more powerful.
Also without America buying all of china's exports their economy would collapse. (which would also **** the American economy up royally)
The two are entwined to such a degree that if one falls they both fall.
Apparently 2495 people die on our roads from driving do you want to ban that, 8,724 deaths from alcohol do you want to ban that, start executing all the people that carry that into our country, these are legal which actually makes a difference, I won't start on guns being legal in america and the lack of health and safety in china, bit of a bizarre argument from someone that is normally a bit more coherent in their views
Apparently 2495 people die on our roads from driving do you want to ban that, 8,724 deaths from alcohol do you want to ban that, start executing all the people that carry that into our country, these are legal which actually makes a difference, I won't start on guns being legal in america and the lack of health and safety in china, bit of a bizarre argument from someone that is normally a bit more coherent in their views
I'm either missing something or you're putting across the exact same point
Associate
Kinda lost on your angle here. Smuggling drugs is illegal by law in most if not all countries on this planet. Smoking AFAIK is not. The law states in some of these countries that if you brake this law they will / may kill you.
If you are talking from a moral aspect rather than a legal one then the options would seem to be either make the drugs legal or to make smoking illegal. If you then told the suppliers and delivery drivers they would be executed for having and supplying cigs then do people think this would stop them doing it. I would think it would but others may jump in to fill that void.
One being legal and the other not puts a clear demarkation line between the two substances and highlights the penalties as stipulated by the law of the country. The collateral is with regards to maintaining this law and not with the number of deaths from a given activity.
On the same line you could ask that if someone rode a bike off a cliff and died, should the cycle shop owners and workers be executed..... of course not as selling a bike is not illegal AFAIK in any country that maintains the dealth penalty for drug smuggling.
Also, just to be clear. I am not advocating for or against the death penalty, just putting information across to allow a more balanced discussion on the subject and trying to help prompt some thought on both sides.
Cheers
RB
Apparently 2495 people die on our roads from driving do you want to ban that, 8,724 deaths from alcohol do you want to ban that, start executing all the people that carry that into our country, these are legal which actually makes a difference, I won't start on guns being legal in america and the lack of health and safety in china, bit of a bizarre argument from someone that is normally a bit more coherent in their views
I think you've read me wrong mate
I'm not saying we should ban smoking or legalize heroin, but saying using some completely arbitrary death rate to justify removing the appeals process on the death sentence and declare it "collateral damage" is just absurd.
Especially when there's other things far worse that we accept for no good reason other than revenue.
Associate
I think the point that Mollymoo is making (please correct if I am wrong) is that just because an activity may kill it does not mean that the suppliers / facilitators should be executed.I'm either missing something or you're putting across the exact same point
The clear distinction in countries with the dealth penalty is that the penalty has been set by law by the powers that be for right or for wrong.
Why heroin is illegal and tobacco is not is a reasonible question. Same goes for alcohol.
I personally feel this is, in reality, a political question rather than a logical or moral one and that is wrong but reality.
RB
lol erm no
why cannabis is illegal and tobacco is not is a reasonable question
why heroin is illegal is pretty flippin obvious to anyone who has ever met a user
yes lots of people die from alcohol related deaths in the UK - but lots more people drink alcohol than inject heroin - you can't just inject the stuff in moderation......
smuggling 2kg of cigarettes or 2litres of wine (if it were ilegal) would be fairly minor - 2kg of heroin on the other hand... frankly the only thing stopping me from saying he deserved everything he got is the mental illness thing - aside from that I think heroin dealers are complete scum
(I also think tobacco companies are scum bags but there isn't much we can do about them unless some politicians have the balls to change the law)
Quite. Something to bear in mind is that the world is capable of controlling China if it wants to. A band of the US, EU and Japan is an economic block producing near 10 times as much as China. China might have a big economy today, and a likely even bigger one in the future, but it is certainly very, very far away from, if push came to shove, coming out on top.
Soldato
Apparently 2495 people die on our roads from driving do you want to ban that, 8,724 deaths from alcohol do you want to ban that, start executing all the people that carry that into our country, these are legal which actually makes a difference, I won't start on guns being legal in america and the lack of health and safety in china, bit of a bizarre argument from someone that is normally a bit more coherent in their views
Interesting aside on the diminshed responsibility/not knowing what you're doing thing though... If you get in a car over the limit or prang and kill someone, being under the influence of alcohol which affected your judgement at the time is no excuse for having done it. Ditto driving with inadequate sleep, even though your very state of mind doesn't warn you it's the wrong thing to do.
Obviously the penalty for that is not (at least not yet) your head splattered with an AK47 round or toxic needle in the arm, but you will feel the full weight of the law.
As regards the UK putting up and shutting up, seems that is already happening - the news coverage on the BBC and in the newspapers has already faded away. Short of sending the SAS in to get the guy out beforehand or nuking Urumqi afterwards - both of which would have had undesirable side effects - there really is not a great deal the UK can do about it.
No i dont think you understand. Africa needs money, China doesnt necessarily need Africas exports, Africa needs to have deals from different countries to support its own needs not because China needs it from them. I think China is capable in harvesting their own crop and farms, but I dont see Africa being able to keep up with supply and demand.
America is not the only people buying from China, China deals globally with nearly every corner of the world.
Sure they intertwine but somehow you can see that the world is changing and growth is happening and inevitable and undeniable whether you like it or not, America will trail behind in a couple of years behind China
Associate
i dont want to sound awful here, but he was drug smuggling and in china, if you drug smuggle, you get the death penalty.
I think you've read me wrong mate
I'm not saying we should ban smoking or legalize heroin, but saying using some completely arbitrary death rate to justify removing the appeals process on the death sentence and declare it "collateral damage" is just absurd.
Especially when there's other things far worse that we accept for no good reason other than revenue.
Yeah I get you, it's a hard one to accept for me, it's not just the death rate of heroin users that defines my hatred of heroin, it's more the fact that out of the fourty or so smokers I know, one has died, out of all the drinkers I know none have died, although one has managed to screw her life up but that has been remedied, out of the five people I've known to take heroin on a casual basis to start with, three have died, one failed to commit suicide because of the addiction and one got clean and stayed clean.
People who smuggle or supply heroin need to be stopped for different reasons than people who supply alcohol or nicoteen. All three can be devastating but heroin is the most likely out of all three by a long way to devastate.
I'll read all that back tomorrow and see if I can make sense of it
No china needs Africa, they do not have enough land to feed their own people, just like we don't.
Yes, but a absolutely huge portion of their exports do to America.
So much so they are dependent on each other.
Sure they intertwine but somehow you can see that the world is changing and growth is happening and inevitable and undeniable whether you like it or not, America will trail behind in a couple of years behind China[/QUOTE]
Only if china makes the move from a producer of cheap goods to a producer of expensive services/goods/expertise.
Soldato