BT Infinity & FTTx Discussion

Can anyone technical tell me why you need a separate ONT as opposed to an all in one unit (talking about FTTP)? Is it to do with the equipment at the ISP end, or for faster speeds? I have an all in one unit, the fibre just goes straight in (in Spain). In the UK I only ever had FTTC.


rp2000
 
It's purely down to how Openreach want to provide the termination. It could be terminated as just the fibre but then the ISPs would need to provide a router that the fibre can connect to. So it'd either need to have an SFP port or have the SFP built in. That would make the ISP costs of the router higher. There's oddles of routers with an ethernet WAN port so that's a cheaper option. It would also massively limit the choice of 3rd party routers that customers could use which would ultimately lead to complaints to the ISP.

Personally I'd rather not have an ONT. When I get FTTP installed I may see if I can get things working using a GPON ONT SFP module.
 
the-evaluator said:
It's purely down to how Openreach want to provide the termination. It could be terminated as just the fibre but then the ISPs would need to provide a router that the fibre can connect to. So it'd either need to have an SFP port or have the SFP built in. That would make the ISP costs of the router higher. There's oddles of routers with an ethernet WAN port so that's a cheaper option. It would also massively limit the choice of 3rd party routers that customers could use which would ultimately lead to complaints to the ISP.

Personally I'd rather not have an ONT. When I get FTTP installed I may see if I can get things working using a GPON ONT SFP module.
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Thanks for the info. I have what is pictured below:
https://usanewsnow.info/movistar-will-install-the-hgu-router-for-free-to-current-customers/

I can't imagine it's very expensive, compared to 2 separate devices and it means only 1 device, but I guess the ISP decides!


rp2000
 
MissChief said:
Apparently the London borough of Kensington, the most expensive place to live in the whole of the UK, doesn't even have FTTC as they refused permission to dig up the road and install a new cabinet.
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I believe some cabinets did get deployed, but residents objected to them, the council wanted BT to bury them underground, nobody was willing to fund that difference in cost and so the cabinets got removed.

rp2000 said:
Thanks for the info. I have what is pictured below:
https://usanewsnow.info/movistar-will-install-the-hgu-router-for-free-to-current-customers/

I can't imagine it's very expensive, compared to 2 separate devices and it means only 1 device, but I guess the ISP decides!


rp2000
Click to expand...

It's to do with the relationship that Openreach have with the ISPs - Openreach provide an access network, they have to hand off a standardised interface for their customers (ISPs) to connect to. There also has to be a demarcation in place, which for FTTP is the ethernet port on the ONT.

Having ISPs involved in the ONT would mean Openreach couldn't sweep through an area and replace the ONTs if they needed to move to a different vendor, as some would object to the new units potentially not supporting their mesh wifi, their TV services etc. It's a lot cleaner in terms of who is responsible for what to have a box that stays on the wall with the fibre attached, and for the ISP to only tell customers to handle copper cables on RJ45 connectors.
 
Caged said:
I believe some cabinets did get deployed, but residents objected to them, the council wanted BT to bury them underground, nobody was willing to fund that difference in cost and so the cabinets got removed.



It's to do with the relationship that Openreach have with the ISPs - Openreach provide an access network, they have to hand off a standardised interface for their customers (ISPs) to connect to. There also has to be a demarcation in place, which for FTTP is the ethernet port on the ONT.

Having ISPs involved in the ONT would mean Openreach couldn't sweep through an area and replace the ONTs if they needed to move to a different vendor, as some would object to the new units potentially not supporting their mesh wifi, their TV services etc. It's a lot cleaner in terms of who is responsible for what to have a box that stays on the wall with the fibre attached, and for the ISP to only tell customers to handle copper cables on RJ45 connectors.
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OK, now I understand better. Here the demarc is always fibre, so even the ONT when I had one about 4 years ago was fibre, then ethernet to a router. I imagine there are more ONTs with ethernet available and possibly cheaper.


rp2000
 
Afaik in Spain each fibre provider runs their own physical network, so Vodafone and Jazztel will put their own fibre cables into your apartment, it makes sense in that situation to just provide a router that can take the fibre cable, since you aren't going to be swapping that device yourself and they don't have to be concerned about compatibility with other ISPs.
 
Caged said:
Afaik in Spain each fibre provider runs their own physical network, so Vodafone and Jazztel will put their own fibre cables into your apartment, it makes sense in that situation to just provide a router that can take the fibre cable, since you aren't going to be swapping that device yourself and they don't have to be concerned about compatibility with other ISPs.
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Yes, from my experience all the 5-6 providers run their own fibre and it's all FTTP and if you change ISPs the engineer just swaps the router. I swapped between Vodafone and Movistar/Telefonica before, even though the underlying cable belonged to Telfonica.

The same principle applies in the UK, from your description, it's just a bit different as the ISP comes and changes 2 devices (assuming FTTC).


rp2000
 
Its like here the network is owned by Jersey Telecoms. They supply and install the fibre and ONT then you either take their router or buy your own. If you want to use one of the other two ISPs you can but it still uses Jersey Telecoms cabling infrastructure.
 
What I’ve written above contradicts what I said about Jersey Telecoms owning the network. They do own the vast majority but one of the ISPs has a small network which they entirely own and it’s with this network that they supply the all in one Router/ONT.

As I say they provided me with a Zhone 2426 which I had to give back when I cancelled my subscription.

The latest incarnation of the Zhone 2426 is the 2426a1

https://dasanzhone.com/product/znid-gpon-2400a1-series/
 
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I'm really surprised that FTTP was rolled out here. It's a small town, population of about 6500 and FTTC is available (as far as I know) all over the town. There's even some streets with G.Fast which is generally working well.

As part of the rollout here they're rolling it out to some of the local villages too. A couple of them are really small, one has at most a population of 250.

I'm not complaing of course, my FTTC has been fine but the extra upstream I'll get with FTTP will be a huge benefit.
 
We have the same here, we have Gigaclear 1gbps FTTP to all homes (which is my preferred as i have 1gbps symmetric which BTW do not offer), G.Fast to anyone within range of our two cabinets (small village in Oxfordshire), and FTTC to all properties in range of the cabinets.

Yet BTW are rolling out FTTP to the poles everywhere currently :confused: As if we need more broadband options :p At least i *think* this is what they are doing, they are pulling in and installing overhead a lot of yellow and black trunking from huge spools, which i believe is used to blow fibres.
 
the-evaluator said:
I'm really surprised that FTTP was rolled out here. It's a small town, population of about 6500 and FTTC is available (as far as I know) all over the town. There's even some streets with G.Fast which is generally working well.

As part of the rollout here they're rolling it out to some of the local villages too. A couple of them are really small, one has at most a population of 250.
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Openreach's FTTP deployment is more aggressive than the commercial approach that was taken with FTTC or is taken by Virgin Media, etc. A fully fibre network will be easier and cheaper to maintain in the long run (your local exchange will probably be scrapped in the next several years) so a lot of low hanging fruit, like villages with telephone poles and no ducts to clear, is being targeted.
 
Jez said:
Yet BTW are rolling out FTTP to the poles everywhere currently :confused: As if we need more broadband options :p At least i *think* this is what they are doing, they are pulling in and installing overhead a lot of yellow and black trunking from huge spools, which i believe is used to blow fibres.
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It could be that, or it could be that somebody has ordered a leased line
 
Caged said:
It could be that, or it could be that somebody has ordered a leased line
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Ah true, although it seems a little extensive for that in terms of them putting it in around multiple lanes etc.

TJM may have the key to why they are doing it, i'd think that any ducts are in good shape as there are not many, and most of the network is overhead. Perhaps low hanging fruit as he mentions, with a very valuable exchange building in the next village due to high property values in Oxfordshire. The site which it sits on would be worth 8 figures i'd think to a developer.
 
I think BT/Openreach might be in the initial process of installing FTTP around my way also. Virgin have just cabled pretty much the whole town, now on one.network I can see BT roadworks where they're installing big chambers deep in the footway near the exchange and long stretches of poly duct.
 
I think this entire town is ducted with a mix of last drops off telegraph poles or underground fed, with almost blanket VM coverage. It's also had fibre run into the exchange lately as part of a BT spine upgrade, and there's bits of FTTP in new builds. Hopefully the fruit is hanging low enough for something to happen in the next year or so, because the FTTPoD estimate was £11k.
 
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