Building Control Advice

markwilliams82

markwilliams82

markwilliams82

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I'm coming to the end of converting our cellar into a living room, just need the walls boarded and plastered.

However I'm having issues with the building controller for our area (Redditch). I've given him two ideas for the coal chute / light well where he requires some kind of steps to allow for an emergency exit in case there was a fire upstairs.

The company who converted my cellar suggested I incorporate a step(s) into the coal chute wall as per below image. And it was also a suggested idea by a senior building controller for Worcester, who said he'd accept the idea if it was put forward to him.




However the building controller I'm dealing with is refusing the idea and is insisting I excavate more of my front garden to accommodate a full stair case with hand rails either side. Bearing in mind my house is a Victorian mid terrace house with a very small front garden as it is, i dont' feel his suggestion is realistic as the stairs would take up the majority of front garden available and would come pretty close to the border of our property.

Any advice on how to deal with building control or to resolve this issue would be appreciated
 
markwilliams82 said:
However the building controller I'm dealing with is refusing the idea and is insisting I excavate more of my front garden to accommodate a full stair case with hand rails either side. Bearing in mind my house is a Victorian mid terrace house with a very small front garden as it is, i dont' feel his suggestion is realistic as the stairs would take up the majority of front garden available and would come pretty close to the border of our property.

Any advice on how to deal with building control or to resolve this issue would be appreciated
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ime. what building control says, goes. fire issue is a massive deal, though i will admit, i am considering boarding out my cellar and making it into a 'snug' but had not considered an escape route hmm. as i said though, do what building control says, what you are faced with now is expensive but they have the authority to make you take everything back until they are satisfied so it's best to stay on side with them
 
All you can do is try and pursuade him but ultimately what he says goes.

In my barn conversion one of my window openings was 45mm too small to be used as a fire escape so had to be changed.

In my fathers case with a loft conversion, the velux window was 100mm too high to be valid and had to be lowered (which meant one side of the roof had to come off as a main roof support beam had to be lowered)

They are very very strict when it comes to fire escapes (too strict if you ask me but hey ho)
 
but that's the problem I have, Redditch building control is not happy with my suggestion, yet the Worcester building control would be as the controller who suggested the idea to myself and the conversion company said he would pass it. So why would one be happy with it and not the other? Any why would cellar conversions companies advertise this as a solution to the fire escape so openly on their advertising if they know building controls will refuse.

From what I've heard the building controller who has been carrying out my site visits has a reputation in the trade for being a jobs worth and has made previous jobs for them in Redditch 10 times more difficult
 
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My mum has this same 'fire hazard' thing in one of her rental properties' basements .. all she had to do was have a (foldable) ladder in the room which could be hidden under the sofa unless ever needed.. which could be used to climb up and through a sky-light if a fire happened.

It seemed that if there is a 'reasonable second way out of the room' then that kind of satisfies the council with regards to fire.
 
Would one of those folding loft ladders with the double handrail on eachside satisfy him? Its technically a fixed solution and has his health and safety handrail box ticked.
 
Once you get one of those jobs worths on your case you are ****ed, those people are a constant thorn in my side. Bite the bullet and do what needs doing, with hind sight i wish i had done that the last few times instead of fighting them.
 
Obviously we started off with the bare minimum (as its only 5ft approx from the level area of the coal chute / light well to the surface) by suggesting a step 1/3 of the way up to let the person push up and out with. this wasn't enough.

we've then got the idea we have now of the metal hand rails as per picture above which they've refused and I'm trying to argue my point.

The building controller had an issue with the height of the stairs at the start of the project, he refused blank and wanted us to adjust floor joists etc.. however when the conversion company spoke to his boss he turned around and said it was only a suggestion and it will be OK as it is.

so I'll continue to argue my point for the time being but it may be worth considering some kind of ladder in there. whether it be one which we temporary place in there when escaping or a permanent one like the loft ladder or small metal ladder secured to the brick wall.
 
DiamondMark said:
They wont undermine each other, once you get a **** ruling it makes it hard for a more reasonable one to pass it.
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saying that, when we had an initial problem with head height in one area he kicked off and wanted us to move floor joists etc.
However when I spoke to the conversion company they by passed him and went to his manager and argued the case. They got it resolved and the original building controller came back and said it was only a recommendation and it wouldn't be an issue. So going over him has worked before.

Upon receiving his reply, I sent him an email asking him to explain why he's not accepting this solution when other building controllers would accept, and it was actually a contoller who suggested the idea and why if its such a recommended solution to the fire escape issue in the coal chute that he's refusing. After all the chute in the picture is actually deeper than mine.
 
Ask the Worcester building control department for a letter of support, it won't please your local department but might be enough to make them back down especially if Worcester reference any part of the fire regs which support your idea.

Alternatively get a local architect involved purely to get this past the fire regs. I doubt Worcester would have suggested this if it wasn't acceptable.
 
Thats half your problem there, ignoring his suggestion, i swear these people were bullied in school.

If you are over qualified to be a traffic warden, join building control.
 
DiamondMark said:
Thats half your problem there, ignoring his suggestion, i swear these people were bullied in school.

If you are over qualified to be a traffic warden, join building control.
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LOL :D everyone who has met the building controller for the conversion can't stand the bloke. one of those snivelling little weasel characters
 
The building officer overseeing my chimney removal looks like an old mad professor, he doesn't say much or seem bothered I'm doing most of the work myself except to mutter "very good" every now and then
 
You can go to private companies for sign off under the building regs. you dont have to use the local authority

Building control officers are there to ensure you meet the regs. if you can demonstrate that then they can't refuse to pass it, unfortunately doc b, which deals with fire is quite open to interpretation in some areas, particularly since the regulatory reform (fire safety) order 2005 came in.
 
What's the fire rating between basement and ground floor? Is there a fire door separating the basement and does it exit into a hallway that leads directly to an outside space ?

Sorry for picking, just trying to picture what you have ?
 
ok so i've ended today by emailing him to find out what his issue is with my solution. If he can provide me with reasons i can at least work on it.

Currently at the top of the stairs leading from the cellar is a standard door. To the left is standard door into living room and on right is an open arch into kitchen. We're havin a mains powered fire alarm fitted here but because we don't have fire doors cutting rooms off we need the chute to be a fire escape. On his initial visit he did say if i don't do the chute i could fit fire doors between the rooms.
 
Fire doors will likely be cheaper than additional excavation. I'll look through part b tomorrow and see what it says, it's been a while since we've done a basement, that said the last one we did used ladder irons.
 
thanks, any help would be appreciated. Hopefully tomorrow i'll get an explanation to why he doesn't like the idea that everyone seems to use and recommend. But i think you're right, i'd rather put in doors than go to the expense of excavating the front and put in some stairs which wont keep with the character of the house
 
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