• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Can a game kill a GPU?

Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,595
Watched the video. Im still 100% convinced software doesn't kill hardware.

I can see how game can demand full power draw, but the card should be designed to withstand any kind of punishment. Im willing to bet 3090 and maybe 3080ti are build on their physical limits, and here comes a game that's stress test the card and components go puff.

All the software can do is demand more power........ Hardware and Firmware should have set limits in place to protect themselves. I think nvidia pushed 3090 design over the line, and components cant handle the stress. I guess we will find out more in time.


Remember when 3090 as first launched and there dying cards due to issue with the poscaps on the bottom of the pcb

well maybe it's the same thing, AIB manufacturers building cards above official specifications and mating incorrect components together lik putting cheap vrm, mosfets or chokes on a 450w GPU and then the only stress testing they do is on games until one day a game comes along that pushes the card further than others and they realise the cards run outside the capability of the pcb

AIB stress test their GPU designs on public software and games - they have no way to test future software or games won't damage a gpu - the gpu should protect itself
 
Associate
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Posts
639
Yes yes yes. It has to be design or engineering flaws. Or some errors somewhere else. In the end of a day this might be a good thing. ( error in design or a flaw) If found it can be fixed or redesigned.

Also sadly, teaches harsh lessons not to buy expensive items without a warranty. So win win to all.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,595
Yep, Jay says he has reports of 6900xt and 6800xt dying as well.

As expected, the New World devs have come out and stated that yes they have got reports of GPU hardware failure and no they don't accept any responsibility.
They are saying it's user error, the user should be frame capping the game in the driver settings.... LOL

And then just now they made a second statement saying they will release a patch later today for the game that caps the framerate in the game menus
 
Associate
Joined
9 Apr 2017
Posts
188
Location
Eve Online
Well, I bought the game just to test out this Menu of Death.

It was rather exciting to fire it up the first time. Power sliders to maximum.. Steam is preparing your game.. is this the end for a noble 3090? (or two?). Did we ask whether we could but not whether we should? Can Dangermouse and Penfold really make it out of the New World?

Then the menu loaded fine.

My observations so far:

- It uses a surprising amount of CPU time for a menu (80% usage on a very overclocked 7980xe)
- It's not the case, as I expected, of an uncapped frame-rate on a very simple menu causing insane FPS. Instead, it loads the game-world in the background and is scaling the hundreds of fps but not thousands or anything like that.
- It scales with wattage on a Kingpin Hydrocopper and a shunted FE and bounces on the limiter up to 600w (single gpu) or so.

I'll experiment more shortly but I'm yet to see anything that I didn't see in other titles. Days Gone, for example, also has a menu that runs the GPU to full load.

A 'heavy' menu like this seems a waste of power and heat - but I'm yet to be convinced it's bricking correctly functioning and correctly cooled 3090s.

Edit: it's less demanding than the ultra setting shadow 'bug' on Path of Exile that was pulling some crazy power numbers on some 3090 driver revisions.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,163
Yep, Jay says he has reports of 6900xt and 6800xt dying as well.

As expected, the New World devs have come out and stated that yes they have got reports of GPU hardware failure and no they don't accept any responsibility.
They are saying it's user error, the user should be frame capping the game in the driver settings.... LOL

And then just now they made a second statement saying they will release a patch later today for the game that caps the framerate in the game menus

A GPU shouldn't have issues sitting on a menu screen for many 1000s of hours with uncapped frame rate.

It would be interesting to know if people had maxed out the power slider who have experienced GPUs going pop with the game.

If you have incarnate knowledge of how a GPU works there probably are ways to make them process certain patterns of data that causes abnormal stress on the GPU and/or happen by accident - modern GPUs tend to have quite complex power gating and feature sets, etc. which you can't always test every possible combination.
 
Associate
Joined
9 Apr 2017
Posts
188
Location
Eve Online
A GPU shouldn't have issues sitting on a menu screen for many 1000s of hours with uncapped frame rate.

It would be interesting to know if people had maxed out the power slider who have experienced GPUs going pop with the game.

If you have incarnate knowledge of how a GPU works there probably are ways to make them process certain patterns of data that causes abnormal stress on the GPU and/or happen by accident - modern GPUs tend to have quite complex power gating and feature sets, etc. which you can't always test every possible combination.

Agreed that GPUs should be able to run at their power limit without incurring problems. Still, I suppose we do have endless hours of people stuck on a screen that is more demanding that it might appear to people who don't monitor gpu temps, usage, power, etc. like people on this forum might.

Point of note - power usage doesn't drop if I go from Very High to High in the presets. It continues to bounce against the power limiter. If I remove the power limiter completely, it can go to around 600w, though I'll play around later and see what numbers I can push. Nonetheless, it means that even people who haven't set their options to maximum are likely to be using the full power of their cards.

I still think of none of that should really be a problem or is particularly new. I think the key aspect here may just be how much waiting there is on launch day and that people don't realise their hardware is running to full utilisation (in the middle of summer).
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
9 Apr 2017
Posts
188
Location
Eve Online
Not just EVGA cards either


Maybe, but it's the internet. People will claim all kinds of things for an upvote. I've tried and failed tonight to break 3090s on this game/menu/etc. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people with 3090s have played both the alpha and beta and been totally unaffected.
 
Associate
Joined
1 Oct 2009
Posts
1,033
Location
Norwich, UK
Yes this absolutely can happen, it's not the fault of the game it's a fault with the video cards being designed and tested around what is commonly expected use, rather than the extremes.

Some apps can more perfectly load the GPU than others. Most games even though they might read say 99% GPU load aren't actually making efficient use of the GPU, complex sets of instructions that utilize different parts of the GPU can be inefficient if some parts of the GPU are waiting for other instructions to finish. If you more perfectly load the GPU pipeline with work then you can cause unusually high power draw and temps which can damage either the VRMs, the GPU or overload capacitors.

This happened in the past with Furmark and I believe someone at AMD a while back called this a "power virus" because it draw abnormally large amounts of power which is not typical of games. But just because things aren't typical of games doesn't mean they can't happen in the wild, which is specifically why benchmarking tools test the extremes. If I had to bet I'd say maybe its the menu doing this, if you have a simple 2D menu that has a very simple set of instructions to draw it, and its uncapped so you have thousands of frames per second then that's a good candidate for the problem. People have said it happens after you recall to a new area and that's right as the 2D loading screen pops up to load another zone. People have also complained about extremely high GPU temps in the menu and while queuing in game.

Sidenote, it's a very fun game, I've been playing the beta and love it.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,595
Yes this absolutely can happen, it's not the fault of the game it's a fault with the video cards being designed and tested around what is commonly expected use, rather than the extremes.

Some apps can more perfectly load the GPU than others. Most games even though they might read say 99% GPU load aren't actually making efficient use of the GPU, complex sets of instructions that utilize different parts of the GPU can be inefficient if some parts of the GPU are waiting for other instructions to finish. If you more perfectly load the GPU pipeline with work then you can cause unusually high power draw and temps which can damage either the VRMs, the GPU or overload capacitors.

This happened in the past with Furmark and I believe someone at AMD a while back called this a "power virus" because it draw abnormally large amounts of power which is not typical of games. But just because things aren't typical of games doesn't mean they can't happen in the wild, which is specifically why benchmarking tools test the extremes. If I had to bet I'd say maybe its the menu doing this, if you have a simple 2D menu that has a very simple set of instructions to draw it, and its uncapped so you have thousands of frames per second then that's a good candidate for the problem. People have said it happens after you recall to a new area and that's right as the 2D loading screen pops up to load another zone. People have also complained about extremely high GPU temps in the menu and while queuing in game.

Sidenote, it's a very fun game, I've been playing the beta and love it.



And this isn't the first time it's happened either. I think the reason it's blew up more in the media now was because it was reported by a popular twitch streamer who people follow instead of just random redditors. Other games which reportedly killed evga rtx3090 graphics cards include Halo Master Chief Collection and Path of the Exile.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
17,595
Igors lab claims to have found the culprit

he was unable to kill any 3090 he owns but he contacted his aib rma contacts who told him it's the fan controller chip on the evga ftw3 that has burnt out he doesn't know anything about other cards but that's what he was told about the specific model.

The cards won't boot if the firmware detects fan failure, but his contact could not explain why the fan controller chips are dying

https://www.igorslab.de/en/evga-geforce-rtx-3090-vs-amazons-new-world-design-caused-evga-problem/
 
Back
Top Bottom