Can a vegan diet make me strong. Let's find out.

Habit
Tradition
Convenience
Taste

Yep meat tastes great. I love the way it tastes, love it. Cheese, LOVE it!, cow's milk love it. Guilty as charged. I gave up the taste for ethics and compassion to the animals that I share this planet with. I stopped buying the stuff when I realized I'm supporting something I think is wrong. But the cool thing about being vegan is it's never been easier so I don't mind too much.

I'm not trying to reflect any of your own ethics or compassion there by the way Tummy. I'm just saying how I felt. If you like the taste more or just don't feel that way then that's cool too. It's just sometimes meat eaters argue so forcefully because they think to lose the argument is to lack compassion and acknowledge the wrongness in creating suffering of others. People like Michael Pollan (an unpaid spokesman for the meat and dairy industries) make a joke of the vegan lifestyle, most of the time not because they think it's silly, but because it has to be silly for them to be a good person.

Obviously this is not true, I do think they made the wrong decision (not to would go against everything I stand for) but I respect their decision like they have mine. I'm more against the industrialization of it than the act of eating meat because people like the taste of it.
 
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Tummy -:) That's cool, I really hate preaching but my intention is just to raise more awareness.

Yeah I'll try and add some pictures and videos asap, I warn you now it's going to be a slow progress packing on muscle onto my lanky ass frame so you might wanna check back in a few months if you're interested to see any kind of results, although the weight should be going up okay.

Ultra_Extreme - I think people will more interested to see if I can get stronger, if I can or can't. Some flat out believe it's not doable and some think it's very very hard. But if I can do it anyone can. I need a very high calorie intake for my weight and height, currently around 4000 a day with 192-255 grams of protein. Plus seeing it for yourself is more impressive than sending dozens of links of others who already got there. Same as those around me, people in my gym know I'm vegan and they told me to quit and go play basketball. I'm not giving up.
 
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Ultra_Extreme - Bring it on. Okay that's 174kg squat and dead and 192lb bench. As it stands, that's going to go up as I think I'll be at 200lb pretty soon. Body weight bench seems pretty realistic to me that's 90-100kg I'm at 70kg now, I think I can do it.

Zefan - True not here, but elsewhere. My targets aren't that crazy, I think UEs are going to be a good challenge and I purposely set my goals past world records. Reason being I want to dream big not average.

I know they trained for years since a young age or are naturally strong. I'll put a note saying they are not my realistic goals.
 
Today's workout.

Got a video from last week squatting 72.5kg. Gotta sort the but winking out and the hip drive. Not happy with the rows and I noticed I need to keep my head neutral. My friend dumped the weight, this was the last set of 5 reps. The last squats @ 140kg was just trying the weight out, that's why he didn't go below parallel.

Tried 100kg squats to try and find my max, managed to get 5 reps out.

The best thing about my gym is nobody does squats so the racks always free. Not today. Two guys on rack that was doing every stretch under the sun. We asked them how long they are going to be, 30 minutes. Wouldn't let us jump in. They then proceeded to talk around the bar. Why couldn't they just deadlift outside the rack.

Squat - 75kg
OHP - 67.5kg
Deads - 107.5kg x5 and 140kg x 2

Wish we had the camera today. Had a little competition on deads and we both managed to get to 140kg, my old personal best was 110kg so this stronglift program is working really well.

 
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Skillmister - He was in the original log and he's not on here. My friends here right now, we are waiting to get ripped to bits :D

Zefan - Ah yeah I see what you mean, looks like I need to drop hips first and move my knees out. How do I fix the butt tuck thing?

lol yeah rounded back? Who's Stoovis?
 
Why was my squats bad and can you explain more about the safety? Okay anyways to keep my spine neutral? How was my friends squats apart from not being below parallel as that was last weeks squatting but I think he's hitting below parallel now.

My friend said how can you judge someone as a total joke when you don't even know them, cause he doesn't' know you can he called you a ******* ****. It would be nice to hear some decent pointers, not total narcissism. The 110kg was the 5th set last rep.
 
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Thanks for the advice Slya LOL partial leg contractions :D. I'm really trying to work on the form. I know what you mean now about the squat not being a squat because of the shallow depth. I did say that the depth was terrible originally though. Dave (my friend) said he just wanted to feel the weight on those last 140kg squats, he's saying it's definitely not a squat. It was on the camera so thought we'd just slap it on at the end.

I'll have a look in the form thread. Haha yeah I usually take those boots off I forgot to on that day, do that for deads too. Yeah when I said I squatted 140kg for 10 reps I was going as low as Dave did on his 140kg, and I did say the form was terrible and not low enough but I can see why people thought I might be trolling with the confusion. I definitely can't do 140kg below parallel, I remember I did say 100kg at that depth though, which I did today.

Do you think I need to drop the weight from 75kg then? I honestly dropped the ego when I started from 60kg when I started stronglifts as 75 is pretty light. The video was from two weeks ago though, I've been reading about form every three days since that.

How is Daves squats at 110/100kg?

I'll post a newer one and some bench/dead. Thanks for the advice though. I don't mean to take anything personal just my friend got a bit ****** at icecolds comment lol because he doesn't know him on here.
 
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It's hard to remember every little thing, I'm reading starting strength so I think my form must be a little better by now, I'll check those videos out too. People at the gym think we are obsessed with form already lol.

Dave on skype lol

[18:49:05] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i'm not doing sqauts anymore i am quitting
[18:49:11] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: lmao
[18:49:17] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: you cried when you got in
[18:50:06] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): when i go back i am doing 80kg
 
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icecold - Well that's a shocker to be honest now. I didn't think I was doing that bad but screw it I'm dropping the ego because if I don't even know the basics I'm definitely doing something wrong.

I think Dave is still ****** lol.

[18:59:28] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: we don't even know the basics :(
[19:02:58] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): he is just one man or boy i dont give a **** what he thinks no more he cant even give us pointers too
[19:04:12] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: he is saying there is no point giving pointers when we don't know the basics
[19:04:32] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): is he ******* stupid
[19:06:13] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): just close the blog and never go back on there and if you do i dont want any involvement i want the video of me taking off and i dont want to se that website ever a again
[19:06:28] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: are you serious
[19:06:33] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): yes
[19:06:42] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: lol
[19:06:51] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: eat your humble pie
[19:07:31] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i have i know wat i am doing wrong so i want tips
[19:07:41] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): not total abuse
[19:07:49] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): what
[19:08:05] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: i thought he was alright
[19:08:18] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): ice
[19:08:25] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: i mean in the last reply he said
[19:08:28] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): no he is a total dick
[19:08:39] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: nah man don't take it too personally
[19:09:46] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i rather learn by my mistakes then get slaughtered by strangers
[19:10:02] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): thay arem't even our friends
[19:10:05] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: dude don't be like amy from amys baking company
[19:10:35] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i just don't want any involvement it is making me hate gym
[19:10:40] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: i understand what you're saying but he's still giving his time giving advice
[19:10:47] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: why man
[19:10:51] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: just chill out
[19:10:56] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i am
[19:11:08] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): just tellng how it is
[19:11:15] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: just drop our egos and listen to him cause he knows his ****
[19:11:33] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i feel ok with 100
[19:12:28] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): like i sed i will drop to 80 just dont need the ****ing of
[19:12:46] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): we all mack mastaks
[19:13:37] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): but they make you feel like you are a total dick and we should not even go to gym
[19:16:01] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): and what egos we don't even have a ******* ego
[19:16:32] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): do a vid next time i will show him a ******* ego
[19:16:36] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): him
[19:17:21] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): and if you go even lighter you are mad
[19:18:01] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): you have to move your feet and stop butt wink that is it
[19:19:33] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i am going back to my old ways he has made me hate power lifting
[19:19:53] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): well they all have
[19:21:31] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: i know what you are saying but all we can do is accept the critism
[19:21:36] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: and learn from it
[19:22:07] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): learn from it by not going on the site lol
[19:27:53] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): and if they think you are ego lifting they are mad
[19:31:37] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: i think we just made **** of ourselves lol
[19:32:16] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): how
[19:32:36] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): we are just learning like every one
[19:32:48] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): has to
[19:33:46] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: cause we are ego lifting
[19:33:54] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): now if we was massive and full of steroids
[19:34:11] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): how are we ego lifting
[19:34:28] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: putting too much weight on and not going low enough and not knowing the basics
[19:34:53] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): we know the basics
[19:35:06] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: well we don't
[19:35:16] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i all ways said i am not going low enough
[19:35:16] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: people are saying watch videos in the form section
[19:35:43] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i want to see them do it absolutely perfect now

Syla5 - Yeah watching them on a phone would be useful, it's hard to remember everything whilst at the gym. I could do 8-10 reps on 75kg so I think it's light enough but I'll stop adding weight now until my form is down.

Yeah you're right I'll have to learn a little at a time, like in bench remember wrist from one session then back form then pushing etc.

I'm not keen on leg press, I've become a snob to isolation exercises.
 
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Captain Planet - Oh man don't come to our gym, if you think we are bad you're going to rip the **** out of everyone else. Two guys today was benching and helping each other lift the bar up the entire sets.

Syla5 - lol yeah he knows about my vegan **** because I've already told him I get ripped to bits on here for it, and everyone thinks I'm a preachy vegan. He gets angry quickly, he even got mad at ice colds name saying it sounds pretentious. He's dropped the ego too and not taking it personally. He's starting again at 80kg.

Do you guys have meets at each other's gyms then? That sounds really fun. Could you imagine me eating with you guys, jesus it will be a total disaster.

icecold - I'll post some more videos up, you haven't seen our bench and deadlift yet, though I'm interested in the deadlift because that's my best lift and I think I got the form down.

Tenzo - Are you serious about the boots? Got them from shoezone, just a fuax suede cheap version of Clarks desert boots. I usually take them off (you can see one of my boots when Dave is squatting) because they aren't flat and doing squats in socks feels better.

JoeF1 - But he said he's dropping the weight to go below parallel?

mrthingyx - Thanks we looked like total ball bags recording that weight in the gym and got heckled for it.

Dave is saying he's starting to not enjoy lifting now, it's becoming like a science degree. Starting to feel like a job not a hobby. He said he's fed up with do this do that don't do that, that is wrong that is right eat that don't eat that.

I told him nobody else ever got big alone, the best lifters all got help and advice from coaches and mentors but is there anything else I can tell him to stop him getting discouraged? Apart from man up :D
 
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spoffle - Yep, I was the same when I got banned, but I realized my mistake when getting criticized so I'm not as butt hurt this time. Thanks for the tip though I'll let him know, I can see what you mean, we thought that was hip driving? He is definitely dyslexia, I edited that skype log but forgot that part. LOL daleks.

mrthingyx - So it's just a case of use light weights to prevent injury until I've learned more about form and then I can start adding weight? I miss the old advice, just eat a boat load of food and lift heavy weights :(

You restarted three times? How long did you train before the 1st time and why did you restart the 2nd? What did you do to fix the form. How come nobody lifts naturally with good form? Just picking up a weight up like dead lifting, what if we never think about form and just lift it? Would we just do it instinctively, like a baby squatting.
 
mrthingyx - We would never think of something being quad dominant, is this not a problem for average lifters? Like do subtle things become big problems when lifting heavy weights? I know some Olympic lifters say sometimes it's all mental once you get to a certain point.

Yeah I'm getting the sense hip drive could be the most important thing along with a safely positioned spine. I've always thought just stick my butt out but I guess that's not enough. What's a hip-pop, can't find anything on it.

So say we both start light. Okay we manage to squat the weight easily. The workouts aren't going to feel like we did anything. How do we begin working on form, I mean I can see it going like this...

Load light weights on the barbell.
Correct our form one step at a time.

How do we know once we are used to the form and ready to add more weight? Should we just continue to lift but keep at 70kg until we think we are squatting the same as in form videos?

I'm guessing the majority of people have bad form because I can't see most of the guys at my gym bothering doing any of this. I guess they will end up injured?

I think Dave wants to go back to isolation exercises. :(

[21:44:26] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): i carnt wat till the powere livting 12 weeks is over lol
[21:44:38] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): and we go back to riping up
[21:44:55] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): lifting
[21:45:28] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): powerlifting
[21:47:52] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): thay is to much expectation
[21:49:03] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: I think we will still need good form lifting heavy weights in the 8-10 rep range
[21:49:25] Hi I'm KENNY ROGERS: mrthingy said he had to restart 3 times to fix his form
[21:49:48] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): no just thay is to much expectation lol
[21:50:27] Dave........ Sollitt (Mr. Small): you have to worck to hard to get form fight

I can see him getting bored of using light weight and practicing form. He'll probs correct his form for the first session then say it's boring and go back to heavier weights. Then in twelve weeks he will say power lifting didn't work because we spent most of it on form and not lifting heavy to make it work. Then he'll be back to the old routine (it's so bad) and I'll be on my own because there is no way I'm going back to splits.

MoNkeE - I'm giving the diet thing a rest, I realize nobody really does care and I am preaching, I'm going to stop being an annoying vegan and only talk about it if asked. Definitely no troll, you guys seem cool now.

Delvis - Gotta hate that butt wink, I never realized I even did it until I saw it on video eight months later. How long did it take you to relearn your squat, did you learn through videos? Apparently I need to do some mobility exercises.

and I thought my lifts were bad...

 
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icecold - He's dropped to 100kg now and he's got a nice teardrop coming on his quads. I've been watching videos of me squatting over and over and over. I'm starting to notice mistakes now and breaking the technique down. Do you have a video squatting 230kg, that is insane, twice the weight I can do.

I've made a job of keeping my knees out not sure about my back though.
What do you mean rip isn't a great coach? He's trained a lot of successful lifters and seems to know his stuff. Just taking his advice I've increased my bench loads.

Delvis - Did you fix that back angle with your chest? Looks like your chest needs to be out more. The 2011 video has no hip drive it's a very different movement I see.

mrthingyx - Thanks for that long post, some great advice there. I think I've made some progress on the squats but I'm not sure as I'm no expert. Butt wink is still there but no where nears as bad.

Got some sexy new stats, I've absolutely smashed my deadlift PR.

Squat - 100kg
Trying to get my hip drive in gear, and still some mobility issues that I'm working on.

Bench - 75kg
Still room for more but I'm going slow on this as it's always been my weakest lift.

Deadlift - 130kg x 5 and 145 x 1 (previous best was 107kg)
So much fun, it's my favorite lift. First ever time I out lifted my friend. I manged to pull 140kg and Dave was getting angry because he couldn't do it, I manged to pull 130kg six times and he give it a go and got to three reps but he struggled muahaha, though he had better form. Then we upped it to 140kg got one rep each. So we needed more weight. Took it to 145kg and we both couldn't lift it off the floor. Grip strength failed us, the bar was already rolling out at 140kg. So he used mixed grip and managed to get it half way off the floor. It was a complete ego lift but it was fun so I used a mixed grip too and pulled it off the floor so we are both even at the moment. I'm never using mixed again though as I don't want a torn bicep.

Next week we are gonna use chalk and I've been practicing grip strength with 50kg plates.

OHP - 42kg (I dropped the weight when I realized I have been doing push presses and not a strict OHP.)
Rows - Stopped doing rows for now because our form is terrible, we ended up laughing too much at ourselves to even continue so did pull ups instead.

Easy as pie baby, keep the weights on rolling.

New body weight 199lb / 14.2 stone. I never thought I'd way this much already so great progress all around. Forearms are smashed from dead lifts though, who needs wrist curls. Also starting a yogu class next week to improve my flexibility.

Had a stir fry for dinner with every vegetable under the sun and coconut oil, tofu, brown rice, and sprouted soya beans. I'm sprouting all my legumes and beans to get the most nutrition out of them. Also taking a cucumber, coconut, celery and cilantro smoothie after gym, worth every sip after deadlifts. Taking a lemon blaster for pre-workout. Also bulking up on almond butter and bananas, two bags of cherries, celery. I'm sooo weak and hungry right now gotta get some KF Seeeee baby.
 
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Okay I'll ditch it. I'm still not doing mixed grip, seen too much. Not keen on hook grip either, if I can't lift heavier because of grip then that's my body telling me the weight is too heavy. Not keen on straps either I'll just keep the weight low and try and squeeze the bar as hard as I can with chalk.

Cheers Slya I'll post one up later, yeah still got tons of motivation in me, just gotta ignore the negative vibes from some people.
 
So you agree rip isn't a great coach?
You can hear him in the video saying "how the **** you doing that" it's funny because he's stronger than me and this was the first time I pushed him instead of him pushing me.
Celery is good, try it with peanut butter.
 
Yeah he's out of shape but he's a great teacher.

Skillmister - Dave deleted the video of me lifting it, or never recorded it but I'll get another video. I'm being 100% honest, the camera was full and he went mad deleting videos, I've got him doing 140 and me doing 130 though. Your lifts are also much better performed, I can't help you improve anything my form isn't great but I'm working on it.
 
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icecold - I don't think he wants to drop it that light, I've been doing 60kg but upping it in the last two sets to actually get a workout. I believe you about the squat I just wanted to see the beast. Seems there is rip lovers and rip haters, some say starting strength is a waste of time. Screw it I'm just going to do what ever works for my own body.

mrthingyx - Okay I'll try hook grip. I'm surprised; I thought you guys would be against it considering you could injure your thumb right? I'm guessing you don't favor mixed grip either, I don't see the point in risking a bicep tear.

I wasn't going to use hookgrip because I wanted to get natural grip, but if that's not possible than hook grip it is. I guess the guys lifting over 250kg on youtube are using hook grips.

Pain is a signal that the body is injured or in the process of being injured; it is not a signal that the body is undergoing some type of "adaptation".
Click to expand...

A permanently numb thumb has been reported by some who use the hook grip for deadlift habitually for years. This has been attributed to the damage done to the nerves in the thumb and it is said that having a numb thumb is an advantageous adaptation so that the lifter cannot feel the pain caused by the hook grip. Only idiots would make such statements which brings us to another problem which is very relevant to this discussion of grips.
Click to expand...

This was from this article http://www.gustrength.com/training:hook-grip-versus-alternated-grip-for-deadlifts It's pretty long but it has some good points against the hook grip.

What do you think to this? I need more convincing to use hook grip, what is the max weight someone can lift with a regular grip and chalk?

Got a video here but I just wanna see if I'm seeing some mistakes. The deadlift only shows four reps, I got six reps but Dave turned the camera off too soon. :mad:


I noticed I still need to turn my feet in with squats but I've been trying to push back with the hips and drive up the bar from my hips (this is riptoe advice). The deadlift I seem to pull it up with a rounded lower back, have I dropped my hips? Also I'm pulling the load up with my back first, I noticed Daves hips raise first then his back which keeps it straight. Also my shoulders look too far forward over the bar.
 
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mrthingyx - LOL, don't hurt me :(

You can't blame me though with the amount of misinfomation out there, it's hard to know what's real and what's BS. I googled bicep tear mixed grip and that scared me from people owns experiences.

Okay but you wouldn't use a bad deadlift technique if you could help it. I mean I don't have to use the hook grip technique. I know Olympic lifters use it because mixed grip is impossible but has anyone done those lifts with a regular grip, is it possible to have a grip that strong?

Lol that's what I'm scared of, my bicep suddenly launching off it's tendons, is that because elbows aren't locked out? I don't want to rely on my form to prevent that even if it's perfect.

Nope those other risks don't stop me because I'm trying to prevent them by training smart like you say, and I think not using mixed grip is a smart move too. I'll give the hook grip a go and see how it goes.

I really don't want to injure myself, lifting is the best thing I ever chose to do. I'm keep away from any sort of max lift (except deadlift on Wednesday it was just too much fun but I quit once the bar only got half way). Actually I should probably stop doing heavy deads because I realized my back rounds like crazy.

mrthingyx -

That's good I thought they was going to be worse :D Do you mean keep my knees out to the sides? Do they start to move inward on the way up/down or something?
Ah I wasn't thinking of chest, I'll remember this tomorrow, so many things to remember!
That's another thing I always forget, to tighten my core during lifts, hip drive with deadlift??
Yeah your'e right my back is bent from the start but why? Is it because I didn't tighten my core or my hips are too low? I was remembering chest up for that lift. I'll try some barbell rollouts, that's awesome we don't have a wheel so I can do these now. How about leg raises?
 
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Skillmister - Oh yeah I pointed that out to him today, I **** myself when I saw that.
mrthingyx - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3118491&page=1

How are they getting injuries straight away from rounding their backs? My back was like a banana but I didn't feel any pain at all from it, I use to and sometimes I would get a few sharp clicks in my back when bending over the day after, nothing real painful. Am I just testing my luck?

The thing is though you could start with a straight arm but then it could begin to ever so slightly curl without knowing and then you have a blown bicep.

Yeah I meant at heavy weights, pulling the bar up would throw the barbell out the hands. I needed to use mixed grip at 145kg, couldn't even move the bar off the floor without mixed grip. So you have no choice but to use hookgrip, so nearly all Olympic lifters use this grip. It just seems so unnatural to bend crush the thumb but I guess lifting calls for it. 70kg is freakin heavy though Olympic lifting is so daunting I wouldn't even try it without a coach.
 
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