Canadian Grand Prix 2011, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race 7/19

CaptainRAVE · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:27

I wonder what they will come up with next

Tweaker · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:34

Makes you wonder if Red Bull have found other ways to gain performance that will lessen the impact of the rules, they are kicking up a fuss to get people to say silly things like Silverstone is like a new championship.

Dutch Guy · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:39

I was looking at the rear wings in the Canadian GP and what I noticed was that the rear wing on the Red Bull was so much flatter than the others, expecially the McLaren, so they must generate a lot more downforce somewhere else.

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:41

You can almost guarantee that the RBR car uses other "tricks" to make it go fast. The visible trick bits, such as the underfloor and flexi wings are only the tip of the iceberg.

I still feel that if the new rule goes through, we may be in for a very close title race, involving Hamilton, Alonso and possibly Button. The FIA usually do their best to engineer a close title fight, so they may change the rules to ensure this happens.

The Ferrari now, appears to be a competitive car and I can't remember the last time Alonso wasn't involved in the title race, when he had a competitive car. Hamilton, in a competitive car, is also a good bet for this year's title race.

Vettel remains the easy favourite, though.

CaptainRAVE · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:42

Dutch Guy said:
I was looking at the rear wings in the Canadian GP and what I noticed was that the rear wing on the Red Bull was so much flatter than the others, expecially the McLaren, so they must generate a lot more downforce somewhere else.

The RB wing is designed to give maximum DRS advantage, one of the reasons they are so far ahead in quali. In normal race trim where you can only occasionally use the DRS, it hurts their pace.

sunama said:
Vettel remains the easy favourite, though.

It would take a very special person to bet against Vettel for the WDC right now.

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 14:46

Alonso and Hamilton are both very special

clv101 · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:04

CaptainRAVE said:
sunama said:

Vettel remains the easy favourite, though.

Click to expand...

It would take a very special person to bet against Vettel for the WDC right now.

Agreed he's the favourite, but his position is no more dominant than Button's in 2009 and that ended pretty close. The relative advantage the Red Bull has could easily be gone by half way though the season then all it would take is a DNF or two and the others will be all over Vetel.

Here are the odds from one book maker today along with their points:

Code:

Sebastian Vettel 1/7   161
Lewis Hamilton   12/1   85
Jenson Button    14/1  101
Fernando Alonso  14/1   69
Mark Webber      33/1   94

There are still 12 races to go, we've only had 7. I'd say Button might be worth a punt.

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:26

Do you think Button can outscore Hamilton over the course of a season?
Button is great in wet races, but in the dry, I'd bet on Hamilton every time.

Button has never won a race for McLaren, in the dry.

Also, wasn't there a bookmaker a few weeks ago, who actually stopped taking bets on Vettel and paid out, already?

clv101 · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:37

sunama said:
Do you think Button can outscore Hamilton over the course of a season?
Button is great in wet races, but in the dry, I'd bet on Hamilton every time.

Going on the evidence this season, yeah he can. To be honest, I'd say it's 50:50 between which will come out on top.

sunama said:
Button has never won a race for McLaren, in the dry.

It's too small a sample size to say anything meaningful.

Guerrilla · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:39

Poor Webber even the bookies don't rate his chances.

3dcandy · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:39

I'd have a punt on Button at those odds. He's always likely to finish which is more than can be said for Le Ham at the moment. However, in truth, I feel Ham will outscore Button over a complete season.

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 15:46

clv101 said:
Going on the evidence this season, yeah he can. To be honest, I'd say it's 50:50 between which will come out on top.

It's too small a sample size to say anything meaningful.

He's had 25 races or so, during which time Hamilton has won 4 dry races. During the same period, Button won, 0.

Based on the above, it seems that in the wet, Button is stronger, while in the dry Hamilton is stronger.

A sample size of 25 races is quite a lot.

Glaucus · 14 Jun 2011 at 16:43

Di Resta not happy.

Di Resta aggrieved at 'harsh' drive-through penalty
Paul di Resta has hit-out at the drive-through penalty he incurred during the Canadian Grand Prix, branding the decision "ridiculous".

I wish teams did fight the FIA more.it might force them to have a rethink of rules and make designs far fairly.

Oh an lotus sign big sponsors GE
Team Lotus secures GE backing
Team Lotus has announced a major new sponsorship deal and technology partnership with General Electric.
GE branding will appear on the Lotus cars and infrastructure from next month's Silverstone race onwards, and team boss Tony Fernandes said the partnership would go much deeper than a standard sponsorship.

3dcandy · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:02

sunama said:
He's had 25 races or so, during which time Hamilton has won 4 dry races. During the same period, Button won, 0.

Based on the above, it seems that in the wet, Button is stronger, while in the dry Hamilton is stronger.

A sample size of 25 races is quite a lot.

They have been a lot closer this season though. Like I said, I do agree that Ham is usually faster, but I reckon Button is far more likely to bring the car home. This years car seems better for Button too.

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:03

Before the last race, Button was gradually falling behind Hamilton. Basically the same pattern we saw last year was being repeated. I can't see that any change from last year.

When the McLaren is a winning car, Button wins the wet races, while Hamilton wins the dry races.

There is absolutely no change from last year.

3dcandy · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:11

Apart from Hamilton bashing into everyone? lol I know you're a Ham fan and hate Button, but they have been closer....and Button IS leading Ham in the drivers championship. I still think Button is more comfortable this year, not beating Hamilton but more comfortable. What you says makes a mockery of Hamilton being one of the best wet drivers though doesn't it...

Flibster · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:13

Woop! New major sponsor for Team Lotus.
General Electric.

clv101 · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:14

sunama said:
A sample size of 25 races is quite a lot.

If we're interested in their relative wet/dry performance the sample is the races they've won, not the total races! A race, wet or dry, that Vetel wins tell is nothing about Button/Hamilton relative winning performance.

Skeeter · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:22

I agree with Di Resta. I don't think drivers should be penailised for minor collisions where they only harm done is to themselves. He made slight contact and had to make an extra pit stop to change his nose, after a whole lap going slowly with half a front wing. Surely he didn't need to suffer a drive through too.

It seemed the only difference between "a great overtake" and "oh, thats definately a penalty for him" was weather they touched the other guy while making the move.

Oh, and Team Lotus have also signed a deal with Williams to use one of their wind tunnels. Looks like Team Lotus are getting serious

sunama · 14 Jun 2011 at 17:27

3dcandy said:
Apart from Hamilton bashing into everyone? lol I know you're a Ham fan and hate Button,

First off, I don't hate anyone. That's not my personality type. I have never met Mr Button in my life and have absolutely no reason to hate or dislike him.

Only someone who has some form of mental illness would could end up hating someone who they have never met or had a personal (bad) experience with.

I am a Hamilton fan because he is the best British driver in F1 (proven by last year's final points standings) and is also super aggressive. My previous favourite driver was N.Mansell...so that gives you an idea of what my preference is.

If Button drove every race like he did in Canada, he would probably become my favourite driver (due to the balls-to-the-wall style), but the fact remains, Button is a safe driver, who takes few risks and plays the percentage game. This was one of of the first few races I saw, where he was totally aggressive.

Earlier in this thread, you will see many of my posts stating that I was delighted when Vettel went off and Button went through. This isn't the sort of thing that someone who "hated" Button would say.

3dcandy said:
but they have been closer....and Button IS leading Ham in the drivers championship. I still think Button is more comfortable this year, not beating Hamilton but more comfortable. What you says makes a mockery of Hamilton being one of the best wet drivers though doesn't it...

Button was leading Hamilton last year, after the first 4 races were all wet. Once we started having dry races, Hamilton gradually opened up a (points) gap over Button. By the end of the season, Hamilton had just over 10% more points than Button. Before the Canadian GP this year, Hamilton was leading Button by just over 10%.

So basically, the pattern is similar to what we saw last year. In fact its almost scary how similar the pattern is holding (observe the 2 percentages and Button's dominance in the wet and Hamilton's dominance in the dry).