Canadian Grand Prix 2011, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Race 7/19

[dannyjo22]

I for one, totally approve of this. I love to see new ideas implemented, especially when they prevent predictable processions, which I hate with a passion. I also love to see the old fashioned lot get their nickers in a twist over new ideas.

Ok so next year they decide that instead of a drs wing, they implement a system where any following driver can push a 200bhp boost button for 10 seconds per lap except the leading car. Would you like that new method, after all you like new ideas implemented and it would rile the old fashioned lot.

That would also prevent predictable results, we could call it need for speed chase mode.

Better still give put some mushrooms on the track and if you pick one up you get a boost mode, or can drop oil on the track. Also totally unpredictable. 70bhp advantage, is this the supposed pinnacle of racing drivers or Chase HQ.

I've changed my mind on DRS, I'm not a huge fan where before I was 50/50. It's not needed really and I'd prefer tighter rules and regulations on cutting the track off from another driver and leaving a minimum of a cars width when they move to your inside or outside.

DRS has been needed because of the standard of defending in the last 20 years or so, because of how drivers will close that gap on you such a huge advantage has been needed to pass. Tighten driver standards and you wouldn't need 70bhp advantage.

For me the novelty of all the passes has worn off and I can see it for what it is, amateur. I understand that the reverse argument is this is cheap and only giving a slipstream advantage cars used to get years ago but when they get it wrong it's utterly laughable and hard to balance race by race.

 

[ukpolska]

Todt: I wanted to ban Hamilton for six races

FIA president Jean Todt has revealed that he considered banning Lewis Hamilton for six races after the McLaren driver’s ill timed racial joke two weeks ago in Monaco.

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Jean Todt’s thought of banning Lewis for 6 races would have killed this sport. It has become increasingly apparent that the stewards look for Lewis to do something worthy of a penalty, however fail to punish others who do similar questionable moves. Anyone remember Webber in Australia trying to overtake Lewis and Alonso and crashed into Lewis. No punishment no foul. As a matter of fact no mention at all. What about the puncture caused by the same individual on Lewis into the first corner at another race weekend.
My point is not to consider punishing Webber or another driver. This is racing. With racing there will be questionable moves and reactions. I for one love a little passion in a driver, which is why I support Lewis. I like Alonso’s passion as well. Anyone consider his comments at the end of the Monaco race. Had the race not been stopped, he would have had no other choice but to pressure Vettle into a mistake which could have compromised the race for both of them. What I am getting at is the fans watch the sport for racing. The American analogy is “Rubbing is Racing”. There will be contact and sometimes involving the racer I support. Take the result on the chin and move on to the next week. The over-stewarding has become problematic for me. So many weekends ruined with after race decisions and false penalties.


But this is just my opinion.

 

[sunama]

Yep. 'Over-Stewarding' is killing racing.
When attempting an overtake, the drive always has to be thinking (at the back of his mind), that he may end up in front of the Stewards.

Unfortunately, this is how F1 is in 2011, so drivers, audiences, etc have to adapt and accept it OR stop watching and move on to another brand of motorsport.

 

[Skeeter]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the DRS might not provide easy overtaking here.

Australia and Spain showed that DRS doesn't really work if the corner before the straight it a proper low speed one. The cars need a good gap to build up a load of speed before then opening the DRS (as in China and Turkey). I think the hairpin will mean the first DRS zone may not work, and there is no way people are going to get enough speed out of the chicane to overtake into turn one, so I cant see the second DRS zone working at all.

However, I can always be proved wrong.

 

[gord]

I've enjoyed it. However it's not down to DRS.
I have been very unhappy with DRS, the DRS overtakes have not been exciting. After a DRS overtake I've felt that we've lost the opportunity to see a real battle or overtake.

I just feel completely the opposite. For a brand new device I think the implementation of DRS has been pretty good. Most DRS activity has ended up with chances to overtake, not guaranteed passing. Enabling the driver behind to be in with a chance at the braking zone is what it has mainly done.

 

[sunama]

Ok so next year they decide that instead of a drs wing, they implement a system where any following driver can push a 200bhp boost button for 10 seconds per lap except the leading car. Would you like that new method, after all you like new ideas implemented and it would rile the old fashioned lot.

By allowing DRS, effectively, the FIA is evening up the advantage that we have seen the driver in front have, over the driver behind. This advantage has evolved over the last 10 years or so, where the car in front disrupts the air for the car behind, preventing the driver behind, from following the car in front, closely. If you look to the 1970s and 1980s, you will see cars able to follow the car in front closely...this has ceased to be the case. To even up this (unfair) advantage, the FIA introduced DRS in order to even up the advantage which is held by the car in front.

By giving the driver behind an extra 200bhp, for 10 secs, you would be giving the car behind an overwhelming advantage. Not good.

For me the novelty of all the passes has worn off and I can see it for what it is, amateur.

Are you suggesting that overtaking is now too easy?

If so, I shall ask you to look at the opening GP of this season when Button was stuck behind Massa, who was obviously slower than Button, yet Button could not pass him.

I would also suggest you take a look at Hamilton's exploits in last week's GP. If DRS has made overtaking so easy, why are World Champions (some of the best drivers in the World), struggling to make clean overtakes, even with DRS?

 

[Glaucus]

I just feel completely the opposite. For a brand new device I think the implementation of DRS has been pretty good. Most DRS activity has ended up with chances to overtake, not guaranteed passing. Enabling the driver behind to be in with a chance at the braking zone is what it has mainly done.

It has guaranteed an overtake at several races this year. There's also no need for it, the dirty air has been halved by removal of Double Diffuser, something no one seems to be commenting on and can now follow 0.5 seconds behind for the entire lap. More than close enough to get in t he slip stream.

 

[Glaucus]

Are you suggesting that overtaking is now too easy?


I would also suggest you take a look at Hamilton's exploits in last week's GP. If DRS has made overtaking so easy, why are World Champions (some of the best drivers in the World), struggling to make clean overtakes, even with DRS?

Damn right it's to easy at some tracks in the DRS zone, it's not fun to watch.

Because DRS works differently on each track and depends on where fia puts the trigger and zone.

 

[ukpolska]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the DRS might not provide easy overtaking here.

Australia and Spain showed that DRS doesn't really work if the corner before the straight it a proper low speed one. The cars need a good gap to build up a load of speed before then opening the DRS (as in China and Turkey). I think the hairpin will mean the first DRS zone may not work, and there is no way people are going to get enough speed out of the chicane to overtake into turn one, so I cant see the second DRS zone working at all.

However, I can always be proved wrong.

I would hardly call that 'going out on a limb', as many commentators have voiced concerns that the double DRS will be ineffective.

 

[Skeeter]

Well its out on a limb in this thread, where the general opinion appears to be that they will sail past down the first straight, then fly off into the distance down the second.

DRS has shown it works well at high speed, but has little effect on acceleration out of slow corners.

 

[utajoker]

the first straight is very long and i think it may just be long enough to make it a bit too easy.

 

[deuse]

DRS has shown it works well at high speed, but has little effect on acceleration out of slow corners.

RB open their DRS in quali half way round a slow corner that's how they get P1 all the time(well most)

 

[dannyjo22]

I would also suggest you take a look at Hamilton's exploits in last week's GP. If DRS has made overtaking so easy, why are World Champions (some of the best drivers in the World), struggling to make clean overtakes, even with DRS?

That's got sod all to do with being hard or not with DRS, it was at monaco. Even if the DRS gave double the benefit at monaco you would struggle to get clean passes. You will also not get clean passes when the driver being ahead is qwuite prepared to cause an accident by closing the door or pushing you off track, DRS or not.

You have cherry picked tracks where there is little DRS benefit, by the same token I could chuck in spain and you tell me that wasn't easy. The speed increase as soon as they activated the drs was incredible. One of Alonso's accidents this year has been attributed to his unexpected surprise of the gain when he hit the DRS.

I think it's very much in danger of making F1 look laughable when I hear people just chatting about it. At the very least with Kers you all have the same and it's up to you to decide when best to use it and beat your rival.

 

[ukpolska]

Well its out on a limb in this thread, where the general opinion appears to be that they will sail past down the first straight, then fly off into the distance down the second.

DRS has shown it works well at high speed, but has little effect on acceleration out of slow corners.

I haven't read the thread as I have been reading news reports from drivers who say it might actually be in a drivers interest to be overtaken on the first DRS section, as they can then get behind them for the second DRS section, overtake them and build up a lead over the rest of the track.

Kind of see what they are talking about, but TBH they shouldn't have been caught in the first place lol

 

[Kenai]

I haven't read the thread as I have been reading news reports from drivers who say it might actually be in a drivers interest to be overtaken on the first DRS section, as they can then get behind them for the second DRS section, overtake them and build up a lead over the rest of the track.

Kind of see what they are talking about, but TBH they shouldn't have been caught in the first place lol

Won't happen, there is only one activation point for both zones, so the car behind at the activation will be the one who can activate down both straights, there won't be any swapping around.

 

[Glaucus]

There's only one detection point, so you don't wont to be overtaken.
This reports was before we knew it was only one detection point.
This means that if the following driver gets past in the first zone,he can still use DRS in the second zone, even though he's leading. How effective DRS we will have to see, some tracks it's useless other tracks it's an overtake button.

 

[sunama]

I think it's very much in danger of making F1 look laughable when I hear people just chatting about it. At the very least with Kers you all have the same and it's up to you to decide when best to use it and beat your rival.

Laughable for the old school, hardcore fuddy duddies who like processional racing.

People who like to see new, interesting ideas implemented, are loving the DRS which allows a faster driver to overtake and the new tyres, which prevent a driver from completing almost the entire GP on a single set of tyres.

DRS is here to stay, so you better get used to it

 

[sunama]

That's got sod all to do with being hard or not with DRS, it was at monaco. Even if the DRS gave double the benefit at monaco you would struggle to get clean passes.

It also shows that you have to be skilled to use DRS to nail an overtake.
You stated that it caught Alonso out. This is arguably the best driver in F1, and he also got caught out. DRS requires skill, it is not a push to pass button as you are making out and creates overtaking opportunities that would otherwise have been near impossible a year ago.

You also stated that overtaking in Spain was too easy. Alonso led the first part of the race. This was when all drivers were on the same tyres. Vettel's car was much faster than Alonso's, yet he was not able to overtake Alonso. If DRS really is a push to pass button, please explain why Vettel (in a faster car with DRS) could not overtake Alonso - I would love to hear this explanation.

 

[Mr Jack]

Glad to see Perez is back on track

 

[dannyjo22]

Laughable for the old school, hardcore fuddy duddies who like processional racing.

People who like to see new, interesting ideas implemented, are loving the DRS which allows a faster driver to overtake and the new tyres, which prevent a driver from completing almost the entire GP on a single set of tyres.

DRS is here to stay, so you better get used to it

Actually everyone that has been taking the **** when I'm talking about F1 has been occasional or other motorsports fans.

You stated that it caught Alonso out. This is arguably the best driver in F1, and he also got caught out. DRS requires skill, it is not a push to pass button as you are making out and creates overtaking opportunities that would otherwise have been near impossible a year ago.

You also stated that overtaking in Spain was too easy. Alonso led the first part of the race. This was when all drivers were on the same tyres. Vettel's car was much faster than Alonso's, yet he was not able to overtake Alonso. If DRS really is a push to pass button, please explain why Vettel (in a faster car with DRS) could not overtake Alonso - I would love to hear this explanation.

Firstly Alonso got caught out because he didn't realise how much of an advantage he was about to get, nothing to do with skill. Quite how you think it takes skill to press a button and gain 75bhp to pass in a straightline is beyond me. Alonso made an amateur mistake, nothing to do with skill to pull off a move.

As for Alonso in the first stage of the GP, perhaps you could tell me what engine map each car was running at the time, what stage of fuel burn. How agressive each car was running and if Alonso/Vettel was waiting to see how the tyres were holding up in the first stint. Alonso was maintaining enough of a gap and went fastest on lap7 so maybe he had Vettel pegged for pace with that current fuel load. Vettel pitted on lap 9 so clearly the first stage of the race wasn't to his liking. Maybe red bull didn't want to use the extra fuel burn at that stage of the race when they would simply be running more stops and using clear air later to leave him for dust.