Poll: Canadian Grand Prix 2019, Montréal - Race 7/21

[alx]

The Ferrari power unit is looking absolutely phenomenal. Amazing how they managed to gain about 0.4s-0.5s over the Mercedes in sector 3 in qualifying.

Anyone have any insight as to where are this extra power is coming from?

I assume the 0.4-0.5s gain isn't all the power unit as the also have a low drag/downforce car which will help also.

 

[neckbeardthethird]

So according to Autosport there is apparently proof in the telemetry that Vettel made an abnormal steering input AFTER he had regained control of the car... and that's the reason for the penalty, they do not believe it was simply down to him oversteering coming back onto the track, they think there was a deliberate move to block Hamilton.

Here's the quote (its from a premium article I think)

"Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The movement to straight the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamiltons Mercedes is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel"

 

[Destination]

They should be complaining about the rule then, not the application of it.
Rule broken > consequence. Simple.
No doubt people will blindingly stand by their views to save face but it’s clear as day to anyone who can view the incident without emotion that a rule was broken.

It is rather interesting that no racing drivers seem to see it that way. Including Hamilton who said he would have done the same.

 

[Lakeland]

It is rather interesting that no racing drivers seem to see it that way. Including Hamilton who said he would have done the same.

No racing drivers? Rosberg is one, his Dad called it 60:40 the right decision. Having a list of drivers that think it's wrong doesn't mean they're right, I am sure there are many thinking the opposite and are keeping quiet.

Plus there seems to be a LOT of people who are confused about what they're actually saying. Some seem to be saying it's bad for the sport/viewers. 'Wrong decision' - does that mean the decision, regardless of whether correct or not, was bad for the sport, or that the rule was wrongly applied which is bad for the sport?

For me the rule was 100% applied correctly. Whether or not the rule is good for the sport is a completely different question.

Seems Palmer is now sticking his neck out too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

 

[Kanpai]

Yeah, Ricciardo is being a bit of a **** here. THe Monaco situation wasn't remotely close let alone identical. Hamilton left him well over a cars width in Monaco, you could have driver a current wider car through the gap he had let alone the old cars. Vettel ended up both absolutely pushing Hamilton off the track (the white line) but was drifting further and if Hamilton didn't back out would have been put in the wall.

So you're saying what Ricciardo is saying here is wrong about how the car would have behaved in that scenario??????

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Well the Italian press have decided who to blame.

Vettel.

Calling him weak and blaming him for cracking under pressure.

As have the British press. Poor guy.

 

[singularity]

No racing drivers? Rosberg is one, his Dad called it 60:40 the right decision. Having a list of drivers that think it's wrong doesn't mean they're right, I am sure there are many thinking the opposite and are keeping quiet.

Plus there seems to be a LOT of people who are confused about what they're actually saying. Some seem to be saying it's bad for the sport/viewers. 'Wrong decision' - does that mean the decision, regardless of whether correct or not, was bad for the sport, or that the rule was wrongly applied which is bad for the sport?

For me the rule was 100% applied correctly. Whether or not the rule is good for the sport is a completely different question.

Seems Palmer is now sticking his neck out too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

lol, the last driver to crash out of the lead after starting on pole was........... SV..

 

[singularity]

As have the British press. Poor guy.

why, no mistake no penalty,

At least he could have done it properly like Schumacher

 

[MartinPrince]

They should be complaining about the rule then, not the application of it.

Rule broken > consequence. Simple.

No doubt people will blindingly stand by their views to save face but it’s clear as day to anyone who can view the incident without emotion that a rule was broken.

Exactly! I noticed pretty all the drivers and commentators were siding with Vettel but the simple fact is they are all wrong and should have complained about the rule long before it was implemented. This is just correct implementation of the rule.

The drivers/commentators must have their reasons but what they are all skating around is that Vettel stopped Hamilton from getting past in his mistake of going off the track. The rule is precisely so that people who go off the track do not benefit. Perfect logic and nothing wrong with its implementation.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

why, no mistake no penalty,

At least he could have done it properly like Schumacher

In the scheme of things it was a tiny mistake with a tiny penalty. It has blown up way out of proportion - not helped by vettel throwing a strop and the media jumping all over it. It can’t be fun being vettel right now.

 

[Mr Jack]

So, is Vettel getting fined for his histrionics?

 

[CaptainRAVE]

So, is Vettel getting fined for his histrionics?

It has all gone very quiet on that front. I figured the fia were letting the dust settle. Probably just a fine.

 

[mjt]

Seems Palmer is now sticking his neck out too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

Read this too; sounds a very fair analysis. Interesting remarks about making a massive scene to deflect from the cause of all of this; Vettel’s initial error...

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Seems Palmer is now sticking his neck out too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

Finally some sense.

 

[Steampunk]

It is rather interesting that no racing drivers seem to see it that way. Including Hamilton who said he would have done the same.

To be fair Hamilton said:

Asked about his radio comment at the time – when he told his engineer that Vettel had rejoined the track in a dangerous way – he said he stood by that opinion.

"Usually the first instinct is often the right one, I would say. When I watched the replay and had a look at my data I had to brake at the exit of Turn 4. There was a hazard there, and if I had not done that, we would have crashed. I don't feel any different about that.

"The thing is from a driver's point of view you know how it goes. It's different when you're watching as a viewer, but as a driver thing go wrong, and it's 'shoot,' you try and squeeze so that they don't lose position.

"It's a natural instinct that we have. You're not going to go, 'Actually I'm going to pull to the left and let them bloody go by.'

"He did block me, but unfortunately he went off track, and the way the rules are written, that's how it's prescribed."

Also Rosberg:

Speaking on his YouTube channel, Rosberg said: "Vettel was screaming 'I had dirt on my tyres, I was out of control, where do you want me to go? I was struggling to control the car, and I couldn't see Lewis.'

"Okay great. But Lewis is there. The rule says when you go off the track, you need to rejoin safely. So Vettel went all the way across and I think he could have easily left a little bit more space, especially in the latter phase like after Lewis started braking. He could easily have left more space, but he didn't.

"He went right, right, all the way there and left hardly any space to Lewis. And so Lewis saw it as a dangerous situation because Vettel was coming more and more, so he had to back out of it.

"I looked at the replay many, many times. Lewis would have been in the wall had he stayed there because right afterwards Vettel continued to move over more and more and it was so tight that Lewis would have touched either Vettel or the wall.

"So it is very, very clear that unfortunately it was an unsafe return to the track. That is the rule. You have to return safely and that is the way it is. A penalty is deserved in that case."

Rosberg said he had spoken to his father Keke about the incident, and reckoned that even suggestions Vettel was not entirely at fault did not stand up.

"My father said to me, 'It's probably 60/40 – 60 penalty, 40 not.' I asked, 'why 40 not?' 'Well, because he was just out of control and he could not do better than that because he had dirt on his tyres and was coming from the grass and everything'.

"I said, 'Okay, fine I know that. But so what? You still have to return safely and if you are out of control then you are not returning safely.'

"So that is it. Penalty deserved. It is not a valid excuse: 'Oh I was out of control, I had dirty tyres and I couldn't see Lewis.' It is not a valid excuse unfortunately. So the penalty is full deserved. Absolutely full[y] deserved penalty."

 

[Destination]

Seems Palmer is now sticking his neck out too: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48583803

Palmer isn't sticking his neck out, he despises Vettel, as is clear from his cometary on the BBC live race coverage on text feed.
Not that I overly care.
Palmer, and 2 merc drivers and the dad of a driver fighting against Vettel
Yeah.

It doesn't matter either way, Liberty media will hope this causes some resurgence, as watching a dull season continue to be dull won't exactly have people paying hundreds to sky for F1 each year.

 

[Lakeland]

Palmer isn't sticking his neck out, he despises Vettel, as is clear from his cometary on the BBC live race coverage on text feed.
Not that I overly care.
Palmer, and 2 merc drivers and the dad of a driver fighting against Vettel
Yeah.

It doesn't matter either way, Liberty media will hope this causes some resurgence, as watching a dull season continue to be dull won't exactly have people paying hundreds to sky for F1 each year.

How would you counter their opinions then? You might not think they’re a trustworthy source but if you disagree with what they’ve said you must be able to oppose their opinion with your own?

I think most people can agree the rule is harsh but I also think most people can (should) see that the rule was implemented. Confusing the two is what all these arguments are about, when you separate them it becomes much more clear, in my opinion at least.

 

[Steampunk]

Palmer isn't sticking his neck out, he despises Vettel, as is clear from his cometary on the BBC live race coverage on text feed.
Not that I overly care.
Palmer, and 2 merc drivers and the dad of a driver fighting against Vettel
Yeah.

Lol! First you quote Hamilton to support your viewpoint, then when you see what else he said, you rubbish him by just dismissing him as a "merc driver". That's your own bias showing there.

Don't forget those rules were put into place to stop drivers killing other drivers by doing whatever dangerous moves would give them a win. The drivers and teams agreed, but when it goes against Vettel, he throws his toys out of the pram as usual, instead of looking in the mirror to see where the real fault lies. And it's not the first time he's done the exact same tantrum when he's the one in the wrong.

Drivers are always going to disagree with anything that punishes drivers, because they did, or would do the same thing. That's why the stewards who have all the information make the final decision, not random ex-drivers on social media who don't have all the cameras and telemetry to make an informed decision.

 

[Jono8]

Finally some sense.

Indeed.

 

[Lakeland]

Seems Ted is suggesting he agrees the rule was broken but also agrees the rule isn’t good for the sport.